Wednesday, February 24, 2016

Psychopaths: Control Lest YOU Be Controlled - Part 1.


I'm beginning to wonder why psychopaths develop this mindset, this philosophy or approach to life.

Psychopath's emotions are shallow, but does that necessarily mean that shallow emotions cannot be strong? I remember how when I was a child and genuinely wanted to be and do good, but nobody ever believed me. I'm thinking that the reason for this could well be that people sensed my emotions were shallow and they mistook that for meaning I wasn't sincere and they would even think I was lying. For me this meant that even when I did what I had been told meant I was a good person, and which I believed to be true, it nevertheless meant that I was let down every time I tried to adhere to all the things that we think of as being good and wanting to do good. In fact, it seemed to me that the better a person I was the more I was being rejected, and I didn't understand why. I eventually could only conclude that everything others said about themselves and other normal people being good wasn't true, because why would good people reject someone who was trying to be even better? So I thought they were hypocritical and themselves liars.

It wasn't until sometime within the last four years that I realized how I am different from other people, and that too is a result of others no telling me the truth - mainly because most people simply didn't know the truth, most people don't know what it is about me that makes me different and makes them sense something "is off" about me. But a few people have always known, yet they chose to never tell me, even when I WAS told they used words that deflected the true meaning of what they were saying. They didn't say "You're a psychopath", they said "You're unusual in character" or "You have an uncommon character". This is what I was told the first time I was diagnosed by forensic psychiatrists. I even nodded and approved because I've always known I was different from the norm and I was proud of it because I thought the norm was hypocritical and not good at all.

Now what about the mentality that makes psychopaths think "Hurt lest you get hurt first" and "control or you'll be controlled"? I can only speak for myself, and I don't quite understand it, but every time I have tried to arrange or form an equal relationship or friendship with another person, I have ended up with that person trying to control and change me. The thought I'm having right now is if perhaps people do this because they have this sense that I (and psychopaths in general) am different, the shallow emotion thing again... Maybe they think I'm lying or have a wrong way of thinking because my ideas are controversial, which they are as a result of on one hand me having very bad experiences with normal people, and on the other hand me being less confined by conformist thinking due to my psychopathic shallow emotions and therefore lack of bonding capacity which allows me to think outside the box much more than most people do. It has undeniably led to me being quite willing to confront ideas about the way the average population limits and oppresses each other in a very destructive way, but which they don't have the luxury of admitting to or even investigating the possibility of because it to them is a way of survival, of not loosing hope because realizing how deeply in the grip of willingly giving themselves up to Milgram Experiment effect-like line of thought and actively oppressing and hurting their fellow citizens they are, giving up their freedom in the name of a false sense of safety and security, that will understandably be very depressing to someone with a normal emotional depth.

But I didn't know this until recently. I didn't understand why they were so willing to and actively condoning giving up all freedom and being perversely mean toward each other as a quite normal everyday behavior, I could only conclude that it certainly isn't what good people do, it is in fact evil if anything is. Yet they always said I am the evil person despite it always being me who is willing to try and give up this type of behavior.

And here is the point...

Because I have always believed in being the best person you can be, I have repeatedly throughout the early part of my life set myself up to be abused and attempted put under normal people's control. I wonder if this is what makes most psychopaths conclude that since if you try to create an even basis to interact with others always results in others hurting you and trying to control you, it seems the only way you can avoid this from repeatedly happening again and again is to be the one who does the hurting and controlling. Because it isn't enough to just live and let live, you have to actually allow others to hurt and control you or they won't be satisfied.

What I'm saying is that other may be acting this way toward psychopaths because they sense we're different, they sense our emotions are shallow and think that means we aren't sincere, so they conclude we're lying and we must be bad so they develop antipathy against us and hurt us, or they try to control us because they think that otherwise we'll do something bad or evil, or they simply react with a sense of fear because we don't respond to the emotional bonding thing and I know that can be very unnerving.

I know it can be unnerving because I have tried it. Contrary to common belief that has it that psychopaths cannot fall prey to somebody else's manipulation this can and does happen. Many young teenage psychopaths have experienced this when meeting older and more experienced psychopaths. I had this experience myself once. I was about 19 years old and I met a guy who was 62, but he was very youthful in mind so I didn't feel any generation gap effects, and besides I've never cared about age differences anyway, so I was interested in him because he appeared to be so much in control and so much at ease with everything that I wanted to learn from him.

The first strange thing I experienced with him was that he didn't allow me to take control. I was used to being the one who showed an interest in the other person and asked all the questions, and so I asked him some questions as usual. But he refused to answer and simply firmly stated that now it was not about him but about me. That took me by surprise, but I thought "Okay, I can always turn things around later on, I'll accommodate him for now". But "later on" never really came because when it was my turn to ask questions he just didn't respond like I was used to people doing. It was very confusing and I didn't know what to make of it. I decided to wait and see, I thought eventually he would have to give in to the normal wish to bond and get close to another person, in this case myself. Then he began to behave strangely.

I had begun my singing career at the time and one morning - I was homeless at the time and he'd offered that I could stay at his penthouse apartment which I did (he never advanced on me sexually. If he had I would've been out of there very quickly, but he was an a-sexual psychopath which isn't uncommon for psychopaths who are heavy on the traits under point 1. on the PCL-R, also known as 'classic flat affect psychopaths who aren't necessarily antisocial or criminal). I was in the bathroom and started singing as I usually did when I knew I was going on stage the same day or evening. And then he shouted: "People who sing in the bathroom are crazy!" When I came back out he repeated this and I said "No, that's absurd, a lot of people sing in the bath, it's quite common even among people who don't sing for a living".

Then he did something I have since learned is very common - and a very good check point when you want to spot a psychopath - he had no argument, but he wouldn't give in, so he simply repeated himself: "People who sing in the bathroom are crazy!". I too repeated myself, "No, they're not! Lots of people do it! Surely you must be aware of that?". "People who sing in the bathroom are crazy!". At that point I gave up trying to reason with him, I didn't give him what he wanted - saying "well, maybe you;re right" or something like that - and he knew it, but it was a stalemate for now, so none of us said any more about it.

Later there would be other examples of the very same thing. But what confused me was the way he didn't respond to my attempts to make him feel an emotional bond with me. I had never experienced anything like it. I had met plenty of psychopaths, but I had always spotted them so easily and they'd never appeared interesting in any way, so I'd never tried to get them to become friends with me. In the case of this guy I did try because I thought he had knowledge I could learn from and I had no negative intentions of using it to con others as is so commonly believed about everything a psychopath does with other people. Back then i still continued to try to.. well, bond I guess, because I wasn't aware that I didn't have the ability to do so with anyone. I thought my failure in this department all stemmed from others letting me down by trying to control me or ending up hurting and betraying me.

The next few days a tension grew between us and I knew it was because I failed to give into his ridiculous statements like the one I've described above. But in spite of this, against everything I would've expected, he out of the blue asked me if I wanted to come along for a holiday down south, I wouldn't have to pay for anything, hotel room and food and plane tickets, he was paying for it all.

I knew there was no hidden sexual agenda. He wasn't even gay in the slightest. I had no money at the time (my band was in between contracts and had some difficulty getting our sponsor to pay a decent amount of money), so I thought "Hey, if he wants to pay, sure, I won't tell him not to!", so I said I'd love to go, and I was thinking that this might be a chance to get things back on track between us so I could finally get to know him and learn something from him. The day before we went the tensions were higher than ever and I said "C'mon, let's just have fun now while we're on this trip, okay?" and he replied "Okay".

But he never changed anything, there was just no connection at all. Why was he even interested in me? I didn't get it. Of course I get it now. He was interested in e because I was different from what he was used to meet in other people, he may even have known I was a psychopath myself and wanted to see how far he could push me. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that he knew for a fact that he himself was a psychopath. It was obvious that he had studied psychology, and a few things he said about having been sentenced and how he had behaved in court and stuff, when I myself found out I knew that he knew about himself back then.

..........

Watch out for the next part of: Psychopaths: Control Lest YOU Be Controlled - Part 2.

45 comments:

Anonymous said...

I think it also makes a difference what people perceive as controlling or care. Quite recently I've had a conversation with an ex of mine and I was completely and utterly honest and he said he felt manipulated by me through that(and I was simply blunt and honest), so I changed my approach and argued out of an emotional perspective I actually didn't have at all and he was fine with that one (and I'm thinking what the heck, I'm honest=manipulative, I make up stuff=splendidly fine). Many years ago I did a couple weeks of therapy and we got another patient, a girl that was raped and hold captive for two weeks, they got her out of that situation and forced her to stay at that hospital even though she clearly expressed she did not want to be there.And everyone from my station found that totally ok and good. They said like this she will get all the help she needs, she will feel save through that and cared for by the people around her and know that people are there for her.And I thought seriously? She comes out of a situation where she didn't have control and couldn't leave and now you're forcing her to stay in this place where she doesn't want to be? How would that make someone cared for? All of those "normal" persons saw that as the right thing to do and I was like 'how can you do that to a person?' I don't get that. Same with what you wrote about people trying to control and change a person. How is that ok? Fundamentally lacks respect, there isn't even acceptance in that, but for whatever reasons it's perfectly ok to be on a moral high horse with that attitude.

Anonymous said...

Hi there
Sam Harris is someone always worth listening to – just love his profound and alternate way of thinking and of course his intelligence. His point here is spot on to my way of thinking.
With regard to your article, not so sure I’ve really got you on this one. Was your attempt at doing what others perceived as good possibly the beginning of a mask to be accepted by them? Of course it seems control and harm is part of secondary psychopathy and therefore learned behaviour, which would make sense. Although I would have thought instincts such as sadism would have been triggered by abuse at an earlier stage of life. In any event we all most likely modify our behavior for acceptance, but with primary psychopaths the lack of empathy negatively influences the adjustment choices. Or have I got the point you want to get across wrong?
Now that incident with the older man, firstly I agree that the way a person’s mind works is what counts and has nothing to do with age. But was this not an example of a win-win situation? He obviously found you interesting and mentally stimulating which he enjoyed, whilst you benefit ted with a comfortable place to stay and fun holiday. A perfectly fair exchange with each getting what was needed – at least as I see it.
Good to see you back and stronger. Pixi

Ana said...

hi zhawq. nice to see that you are back.

i dont think that the mindset you are talking about is exclusive to psychopaths, although i do see why it might be more common in psychopaths. i think it is just a human thing, because i realized that i do think like that to some extent, and i think it is caused not by your emotions, but mostly because as you go about your life, you realize that people are shitty, and you just learn to adapt and not get hurt by these people by hurting them first, before they get a chance to hurt you. i think it is just human instinct to protect yourslef mentally/physically at all costs.

i love that story of that old guy. not many people are like that now. many of them expect some sort of reward for being kind and generous, abd for helping others.

and, may i know how far you would go to get something you wanted? like, would you have had sex with that guy if it meant that you got something you had wanted for a long time? Thanks.

Zhawq AmaDraque said...

Anon, February 25, 2016 at 2:30 AM

You bring up some great points. I agree completely. I have experienced this strange way of perception over and over, in fact where I currently live I have had to come to the conclusion that I have to lie because people just will never accept honesty because it doesn't correspond completely with their own view about what is normal and how you should argue in a debate. Sometimes it's almost as if being logical makes you suspect and untrustworthy in their eyes.

The example with the girl that you describe, I have seen this happening. They believe she will feel safe and cared for because after some time in that institution she will begin to adjust her thoughts and beliefs to what the staff wants to hear and if she's like most normal people she may even begin to believe it too. So those who forced her into this institution will feel justified and do the same thing when it happens to the next victim - basically victimizing them all over again.

From a certain perspective it can even be argued that what they do is even worse than what she already had experienced because this time it is society itself that victimizes her, takes away her control and forces her to go through painful "therapy" conducted by strangers she don't know (the psychologists or psychiatrists at the institution).

Zhawq AmaDraque said...

Pixi:

"Was your attempt at doing what others perceived as good possibly the beginning of a mask to be accepted by them?"

I believe in my case the word 'good' does not have the same meaning that it has for non-psychopathic people, but it has the same outcome.

Let me explain: When I am motivated to "do good" it is because I find it logical. I grew up in the aftermath of the hippie youth movement where it was very revolutionary to want to change things for the better because mainstream society wanted status quo, no change.

I felt that by changing things we would get so many chances to experience exiting new things that humanity might never have known or experienced before. I do not believe in things that are stagnant and the reason may be as simple as I need excitement, I honestly don't know for certain, but I do know that I think my ideas can be used for the better of not only myself but for everybody.

In primary school I witnessed kids being bullied, and they were always the kids who were the most fun and interesting to be around. So I naturally developed a negative stance toward bullying because to me it represents oppression toward thinking in new and different ways and exploring new and exciting things and possibilities.

Do you see what I mean? It is basically just my nature that set me on the path I'm on, and it happens that I think what is good for me would generally be good for everybody.

Of course, as time went by I had to change that view when I learned that I pretty much have to abuse and lie and force others into submission in order to merely be allowed to live my life and do what I consider important and necessary. I will say more about this in the last part of this article series, but I hope in the meantime what I have said here makes some sort of sense. '^L^,

Zhawq AmaDraque said...

Pixi (continued):

"Of course it seems control and harm is part of secondary psychopathy and therefore learned behaviour, which would make sense."

Actually, primary psychopaths can be at least as controlling as other psychopaths. But they are less moved by emotional satisfaction and more by a intellectual curiosity which leads to the same conclusion: Control is a means to an end: Obtaining knowledge.

"Although I would have thought instincts such as sadism would have been triggered by abuse at an earlier stage of life."

Very true. Explicitly primary psychopaths sometimes commit "heinous" crimes of torture i.e., but contrary to common belief they don't torture because it gives them satisfaction, they do it out of curiosity, to see what happens when they do it. That's why they often keep the victim alive so that they can experiment and try various forms of torture. An emotionally driven person will usually have a certain type of torture that works for them and they will repeat this activity over and over until they get caught. That's your average serial killer.

"the lack of empathy negatively influences the adjustment choices."

In the sense of what is considered acceptable, yes, it absolutely does.

"Or have I got the point you want to get across wrong?"

Well, I've only posted the first in a series of three articles, so I haven't really made the point yet. I have tried to open up for an initial understanding of what kind of person I am, but I hope to make the whole point more clear in the 2nd and 3rd parts of the article.

"Now that incident with the older man, ... was this not an example of a win-win situation?"

It absolutely was, and it always is. You don't hang out with someone if you don't get something from it, and this is true for everybody, psychopaths and normal people alike.

"Good to see you back and stronger."

Thank you, Pixi, I appreciate that and it's good to be back. :)

Zhawq AmaDraque said...

Ana:

"hi zhawq. nice to see that you are back"

Thanks, Ana, I'm glad to hear that. :)

"i dont think that the mindset you are talking about is exclusive to psychopaths, ... you realize that people are shitty, and you just learn to adapt and not get hurt by these people by hurting them first, before they get a chance to hurt you."

Perhaps there are non-psychopaths who think this way, but it is nevertheless something that are known to be very common in psychopaths - so common, in fact, that it is used in questionaires meant to root out psychopaths in various settings like f.ex. job applications (not all job places use it, obviously), but also in psychological assessment.

The key here, I believe, is to understand that to have this way of thinking is not enough to fit a psychopathy profile. Psychopathy is a cluster of traits which must all be present to a large extent. Check out my article about the PCL-R (The Psychopathy Check List - Revised) to see what it takes to be a psychopath.

"i think it is just human instinct to protect yourslef mentally/physically..."

You take the words right out of my mouth. ;)

"i love that story of that old guy. not many people are like that now. many of them expect some sort of reward for being kind and generous, abd for helping others."

Make no mistake, he expected something in return, just not what most people would want. And as it turned out I didn't deliver. :D

"would you have had sex with that guy if it meant that you got something you had wanted for a long time?"

Absolutely not. Had he made any suggestions toward that end I'd have left then and there.

Would I ever go that far to get something I want? I don't know, I don't think I'll ever have to find out because nothing I want is worth that kind of self degradation. I know some psychopaths would think nothing of it and go right ahead, but like everybody else we are not all the same - which is one of the things I hope to bring across by running this website. '^L^,

Anonymous said...

What you call "psychopaths" are people who were not accepted by their parents. There was no bonding and they had no way to be "good" for their parents. What you don't know is that it is you who became a liar, you were made to be a liar about non-existent bonding. THERE IS NOTHING GOOD IN LYING THAT THERE IS A BONDING, while there is nothing under your mask. That is why nobody ever believes you, because what you do is not good. It is lying.
What you still don't want realise is that you are not real psychopath, you just love being lied to. You love it so much that you call it "good".

Ana said...

thanks for answering that stupid question. i honestly did not think that you were going to answer that. i find it very interesting that you would not do that. is it due to a conservative upbringing? or is it that you just dont find that guy appealing enough?

i feel like explaning my motive behind asking that. so, a few weeks ago, someone posted a question on a subreddit i visit very often where they asked if anyone would go outside of the sexual orientation. most people said that they would, if they got something they needed or wanted in return. i thought that it made sense for psychopaths to be fine with it because i thought that maybe psychopaths are more willing due to their promiscuity and because morals/societal expectations dont really influence your thinking that much.

anyway, i think i was just curious. its kind of awkward for me to ask that sort of question on the comment section of a blog, but oh well... bye. :)

are you on reddit though? maybe i can continue this awkward conversatuon there where it might be less awkward. (i can already imagine you facepalming yourself as you read this... and yet im leaving this comment. i think the medication may have rewired my brain)

Anonymous said...

What do you think your last words would be, just hypothetically? I think I would like to say "Have fun, guys"

Anonymous said...

This post is an excellent portrayal of a psychopathic child trying to fit into a world beyond their comprehension. The response of being the first to hurt/control seems pretty normal given that being in a perceived harmful situation is experienced as danger, triggering the fight/flight instinct.
But how this translates into manipulation for personal gain at best and blood-lust with all its implications at worst is confusing.
This brings me to a theory I’ve had for a while that the psychopaths who score highly on lack of emotions could be more inclined to be indifferent to pain or suffering and less likely to be moved by it sufficiently to experience excitement or pleasure. It would be nice to hear your views, if you have ever considered it.
Thanks for an interesting article.

Anonymous said...

Oh Zhawq is a psychopath alright, I have absolutely no doubt about that and I am a cynic who never takes anyone or anything at face value. I think I might be happier if I thought he wasn’t completely one so I could have the warm & fuzzy feeling that he had some sort of bond with us. But I have respect for him nonetheless and appreciate the time he shares with us by way of this blog, which certainly isn’t always a pretty picture.
Having to face a reality that I’m not comfortable with enabled me to be brutally honest with myself in questioning my convictions, motives and so much else, resulting personal growth which I’m always looking to do. I hope he doesn’t give up this project any time soon.
Frith

The Controller or the Controlled said...

Glad your back. What is it that you need to control, the fact that they just want to control what you say, or an overall 'friendship'. Psychopathy is more equivalent of a non-narcissistic control freak. I can't understand the concept of 'changing' someone, it isn't like you can change an average person without much effort. The vulnerable state of the person is the catalyzer of change. It would be nice if you could address the pro-social psychopaths, in future articles. I am on the skeptical side of psychopathy in general as well as IQ, it seems more as an abusive label in most purposes, but your website gives good arguments as well as James Fallon's work (You should address some of his recent work) It is not to say that I am in complete rejection, the current way defined by cognitive psychology is open for abuse.

P.S.:I was playing with the possibility that the best writer in the English speaking was mildly psychopathic Marlowe or Shakespeare, they are the same person.

MMS said...

So sorry to read your latest tweet, Zhawq. All I can do is wish you well which I do, even though it is not very constructive.

Zhawq AmaDraque said...

It's taken a little longer for my legs to get rid of the swelling than I anticipated, but I'm getting there, I just have to give a few more hours because if I go back to work on my computer now I know my legs will relapse and be just as swollen as they were 2,1/2 days ago before the end of the afternoon.

I'm looking very much forward to replying to everybody and to post Part 2 of the article (which I have already prepared so it only needs a few things done before it's ready for publish).

Thank you all for your support, I always appreciate it and it helps me stay motivated.

Talk to y'all soon. '^L^,

Anonymous said...

As an observer I find this current game you are playing entertaining. A bit predictable, but interesting enough to keep me watching.

Anonymous said...

Zhawq, do you know how lucky you are to know that you are part of a ‘group’ that you can identify with, understand and communicate with, albeit it only intellectually. I wish I could have found where I fit in as you have done but I will never understand this world.
I need to remain anonymous, hope you can understand.

Zhawq AmaDraque said...

Anon March 11 -6, 1:29 AM - Part 1:

"do you know how lucky you are to know that you are part of a ‘group’ that you can identify with, understand and communicate with, albeit it only intellectually."

I don't believe I am lucky. First of all I have been able to learn about my kinship with the psychopath minority through my own persistent study and unwillingness to give up even though I've been met with silence and closed doors since my earliest teens when I first began the search for knowledge and understanding why I am so different from other people. So I have no sense of being lucky, only of finally and against the odds having found out what I wasn't meant to ever know about.

As for being able to understand and communicate with those who belong to the same minority, I do think that's a privilege. But I still don't feel any true sense of identification, in some ways I feel I have as little in common with other psychopaths as I have with normal people and vice versa, meaning sometimes in some areas I feel I have some things in common with respectively other psychopaths and normal people.

"I wish I could have found where I fit in as you have done but I will never understand this world."

I understand why you have formed this impression of me, but the truth is that I still don't feel I fit in anywhere. I can see I share certain personality traits with other psychopaths, but beyond that there's no sense of brotherhood or anything of that nature. I think it comes with the territory of being a psychopath, we are per definition 'loners' and we cannot form those connections with others that are the basis for developing a sense of 'fitting in'. It doesn't matter what kind of person we're talking about, as a psychopath we cannot connect with anyone, and We can therefore not connect with normal people, and nor can we connect with other psychopaths.

You mention the intellectual nature of my awareness that I belong to a minority, a group of people. But it goes even farther than that, and I think I can describe my experience in a way that most people will recognize...

It's like realizing that I and plants at the Australian outback at the opposite side of the globe both are life forms of Earth and therefore share a common characteristic. I'll be aware of it, but I'll not in any way be able to form an emotional bond - or at all - with Australian plant life than I was before I realized what they and I have in common.

Where I'm really different from most people is in that I have the same distance and inability to bond emotionally even with people I meet and/or with whom I have in common the social stigma of being categorized as being in the minority of people that we call psychopaths and which society sees as the only people who are born ultimately evil. (<-- I disagree, BTW. I don't believe in 'evil' as a personality trait.)

Zhawq AmaDraque said...

Anon March 11 -6, 1:29 AM - Part 2:

"I wish I could have found where I fit in as you have done but I will never understand this world."

I believe most, if not all, people belong to more than one category of people. As such I do not see myself as just a psychopath, I see psychopathy as being one of my - admittedly more prominent - personality traits, but I am so much more. If there wasn't such an enormous stigma attached to being a diagnosed psychopath, I would be far more open about not only who I am outside of PsychopathicWritings.com but also in the activities in which I participate and am active.

But I guess I can name a few things albeit as very wide generalizations:
___________________________

# - I am a philosopher.

# - I am a song writer.

# - I am a once-upon-a-time relatively well known singer.

# - I am a political critic.

# - I used to be among the more generous givers to charity (when I still had access to my bank account and to make money through investment and stock exchange, etc.).

# - I am publicly vocal about Citizen's Rights being respected - although I've chosen to take a less up front stand than I normally would (because it's in my nature and I'm good at being front figure) because I don't want my diagnosis and my past as a convicted murderer to become an asset for opponents to use against others who fight for and believe in the same things that I do.

# - I am a keen student of psychology, anthropology, history, and physics, because I want so badly to understand and learn more about the nature of what we call reality.
___________________________

Will I ever understand this world? I doubt it. But I see that you share my wish towards getting there.

"I need to remain anonymous, hope you can understand."

I just may understand you even better than you know, my friend. :)

Anonymous said...

Neurotypicals have a brain thats like a Chimp, their emotional thinking is all about species survival and how to succeed in a troupe. They can't meet anyone in the middle because its all about who has status over another, who is higher up the pecking order. Thats why they will capitulate and act like a piece of prey when confronted with what they perceive as a more dominant force. If they can't fit you/ themselves into their notion of hierarchy they'll get confused and won't be happy about it.

Ana said...

Zhawq, I can't help but ask, especially with all the talk about death on your twitter account, do you experience fear or depression upon realising that your time here on this planet is limited, or have you already accepted your fate? Do psychopaths even feel fear or depression at all? I think that because you are interested in physics, that should be even scarier, because that is how i feel about it. (are you any good in physics, and if so, do you mind explaining some things to me?) Do you ever stay up at night because you're afraid that that will be last time you see this universe before you fade into nothingness?

Hasian said...

Personally, I never tried to do good, but I always saw myself as good, I'd always see myself as justified, I was always in the right, the others were always in the wrong. My morale code was always very tight on some subjects, loose on others, but there was one thing that was universal, and that was that it didn't necessarily apply to me. I don't know why it didn't, but it never did, which was something I could never make sense of.
For a long time of my life, I always imagined that everyone felt like me, that what kept us in check was fear, and this gave me a rather unpleasant set of views in life, especially when I realized that when I did the things I was not supposed to, no one was going to come after me, in fact, there were only a few very risky things with chance of risk, though I'm likely to eat my own words eventually. (Maybe I'll see a diagnosis out of that, more than what I've already found in myself.)
Replying to the original post, I do believe Psychopaths feel emotions, I believe all do. I have found in myself, although I find myself to not possess empathy, or if I do, to be extremely blunted to where it often feels like none at all, I possess very strong emotions, especially that of love, and I crave love and intimacy. Though the type of love and intimacy I crave is not the type where I'd sacrifice myself for them, sure, I might take a bullet for them, but I would not die for them, for I know they'd move on without me. I'd rather the entirety of those I loved and cared for me died rather than I perished and they move on and be happy eventually. Yet, I crave a romantic relationship, I crave the stability they bring, I want a family, I want romance, I want someone who loves me, who would do things for me selflessly, I'll even try to be like them, even though I know I can't, because I'll always expect something in turn. I crave that more than anything, because in the moments they can convince me that not all the world thinks like me, that not all the world is seeking eachother for something, that they do something for me, say something to me, do something to me with nothing to gain, nothing to benefit from, and they dispel my wondering of what they've got to gain, in those few moments I feel whole, before I cast them into doubt again. Though.. I'm also Borderline, so perhaps my glutamergic deficits cast my observations into doubt.

Anonymous said...

Ha! I know exactly what you're talking about with the redirecting the conversation to you thing. I've had a run in with another socio where we were having a battle of the redirection.

Anonymous said...

"do you experience fear or depression upon realising that your time here on this planet is limited, or have you already accepted your fate?"

As Zhawq, hasn't answered this one I am happy too. Because as Psychopaths we have only a very limited number of emotions we don't have any particular emotion about death. We know that in XX years we will turn into a pile of ash and thats the end of it, there is nothing after this. Its one of the reasons that we don't care about things others take too seriously because we know at the end of the day we all turn into a pile of ash and compared to that event nothing really matters.

Its one reason we can do dangerous things or in a threatening situation we can easily go down to the death with someone. If normal people ever get a glimpse of that from us they will feel fear because they see that really we are capable of anything and don't care. This can be a very useful to control people and to get them to back off in a threatening situation.

John Nutt said...

+Ana
"Do you ever stay up at night because you're afraid that that will be last time you see this universe before you fade into nothingness?" Death is nothing, not "nothingness" (whatever that is). In fact everyone of us "dies" every night when we go into unconscious sleep. I guess death is "like that" - just without the waking up part though obviously. Like Freud pointed no one has ever actually experienced their own death - since while we are alive we are not dead and thus cannot experience "death" and those who have died are not experiencing anything. The fear of death is actually disgusing a fear of something else if we follow Freuds reasoning here.

Anonymous said...

"outside factors that regularly intrude and impose upon my life"

Sorry to hear that. One would have thought those researchers had all they needed from you but maybe they just enjoy messing with you, which is rather stupid because they should know by now that you are beyond allowing them to get to you.

Stay strong
Pixi

Anonymous said...

You are not a psychopath. You are a liar. A liar to yourself. You love the lie, that it is you, who is the psychopath and it is you who has control (over psychopaths - nonsense, of course, but it is the lie you love). You don't like the truth that it is NOT YOU who is the psychopath. You have even created a website about the lie, that it is YOU, who is the psychopath. The truth, you don't want to hear is that real psychopaths love such liars as you and have full control over you.

Ana said...

+John Nutt
'Nothingness' is just the term i use to describe death, or rather what comes after it, because i believe that we would never be able to fully comprehend that, and the word 'nothing' just doesn't sound as great to me. i am fully aware that it is not death itself that i fear, but rather not knowing what will happen next that keeps me awake at night. i guess i just want to be Ana, as i see myself in the mirror every morning, and not a pile of ash that has no meaning behind and will soon be forgotten like almost every other person that has ever existed. i just can't get used to the thought that when i die, i will cease to exist, and i am scared that it will happen before i get to do things that i want to do. does that make sense?

(hopefully i sound a bit more coherent right now)

John Nutt said...

+Ana
'Nothingness' is just the term i use to describe death," or rather what comes after it, because i believe that we would never be able to fully comprehend that, and the word 'nothing' just doesn't sound as great to me." Nothing is the only word to describe "it" since death is literally nothing.

" i am fully aware that it is not death itself that i fear, but rather not knowing what will happen next that keeps me awake at night." It still seems you are thinking that death is "something" when their is not going to be any "what happens next" because you are going to have ceased to exist by then.

" i guess i just want to be Ana, as i see myself in the mirror every morning, and not a pile of ash that has no meaning behind and will soon be forgotten like almost every other person that has ever existed. " You will never be ash. At first glance it might seem that the naturalist view of death might seem depressing but if you look closer it's not bad at all. From your view you can only ever exist, their is nothing - to you anyway - outside of your life/existence. So in that sense you are immortal, their will never be a moment in time - to you - when you don't exist. Now of course the world will go without you but the good thing is that while that is the reality, it is not real to you.

"i just can't get used to the thought that when i die, i will cease to exist, and i am scared that it will happen before i get to do things that i want to do. does that make sense?" If you die before you get to do those things you are never going to know that you didn't do them and so you lose nothing. On the other hand imagine you grow old and it dawns on you never did those things that you wanted to do in your life. This is much worse than the first scenario because in this case you have actually experienced a loss.

Ana said...

+John Nutt
You need to understand that i come from culture where children are expected to take care of their parents and give back to them. My mom has drilled that logic into me when i was a kid, and i feel like i would let my parents down if i died before fulfilling my role as a daughter and would be waste of their resources/time/effort. It sounds stupid, and i know it is, but i can't help that that is just how i was raised. I know that it doesn't matter once i am dead, but right now, when i am alive, the thought of what would happen to them terrifies me. I dont think my brothers would take of my parents when they grow old. Which is why i want to live long enough to at least take care of them until they die. Then, i can die peacefully and maybe i will not lose sleep over this.

Zhawq AmaDraque said...

Anon, March 14, 2016 at 6:27 AM

"[Neurotypicals] can't meet anyone in the middle because its all about who has status over another, who is higher up the pecking order. Thats why they will capitulate and act like a piece of prey when confronted with what they perceive as a more dominant force. If they can't fit you/ themselves into their notion of hierarchy they'll get confused and won't be happy about it."

Can't argue with that. '^L^,

Zhawq AmaDraque said...

Ana, you wrote:

"Zhawq, I can't help but ask, especially with all the talk about death on your twitter account, do you experience fear or depression upon realising that your time here on this planet is limited, or have you already accepted your fate?"

I have definitely not accepted my fate as it looks from my current perspective. That is, I have no problem accepting that I will die some day, but I have a problem with accepting that I may die before my time because society doesn't live up to their end of the bargain, that more than anything angers me.

As for whether I fear death? No, I don't. I don't even fear the possible pain that may ensue prior to my departing because I've already gone through pretty much the greatest kind of physical pain that man can suffer, so I know what to expect and I know there is an end to it; I have even learned a few methods to kind of distance myself, a form of meditation that can put you into a semi-conscious state that gives you the illusion of being outside of your body. Few can do this on will, you have to be in severe pain first for it to work.

But even so, I'm aware that when the time gets near I probably won't be able to avoid feeling some sort of fear, it's hardwired into our brains as a survival mechanism. But that is what it is, and I have had to face fear many times throughout my life so at this point I usually know how to deal with it and can usually distance myself enough to look at my fear with interest and curiosity. I can't imagine myself panicking when I die because I don't fear death itself.

"Do psychopaths even feel fear or depression at all?"

As always there is no one answer that fits all psychopaths because we're individuals too. But generally speaking psychopaths rarely or never experience fear, and only some experience something that may be akin to depression. For me it's more like a sense of disappointment which at times has caused me to ask myself if I really can prevail under the massive attempts to suppress me by the authorities in the country where I currently live, but it never gets to the point where a psychologist or psychiatrist would diagnose it as actual depression, and I also always bounce back without any aid from drugs or therapy. And that is fairly common, not only for me, but for psychopaths in general.

"I think that because you are interested in physics, that should be even scarier, because that is how i feel about it."

What should be even scarier?

"(are you any good in physics[?]"

No, I'm afraid not, but it is one of my greatest interests and something I would love to learn more about. If I ever succeed in getting out of this country I will take courses in physics. But I have neither the money nor the means or time to do it here.

"Do you ever stay up at night because you're afraid that that will be last time you see this universe before you fade into nothingness?"

No. That idea has never occurred to me. Of course I've been made aware of the thought of dying in your sleep by hearing it from others, but it has never seemed worth for me personally to spend time wondering about. It's just a fact. As I see it, if you die in your sleep you can't regret that you didn't stay awake to experience it happening, so there's no point worrying about it, just as staying awake because it might happen tonight is a waste of time and energy because it might just as possibly happen during the day - and besides, I have a feeling that I will know when the time is near - but that's just me of course, me and my magical thinking. ;)

Zhawq AmaDraque said...

Hasian (Part 1), you wrote:

"I never tried to do good, but I always saw myself as good"

For me, being good incorporates doing good, I don't feel I have to 'try' to do good, I automatically do it (that is as I see it, of course - but in many ways it's also as others see it, but "somehow" I never get credit for those deeds, haha).

"there was one thing that was universal, and that was that [some morale code] didn't necessarily apply to me. I don't know why it didn't, but it never did, which was something I could never make sense of."

Interesting. I've always had a very clear picture of why certain moral codes didn't apply to me, and I always felt that if others were in the same position as I was, the same would be the case for them.

"For a long time I imagined everyone felt like me, that what kept us in check was fear, and this gave me a rather unpleasant set of views in life, especially when I realized that when I did the things I was not supposed to, no one was going to come after me"

This is interesting too. I've always had the same belief, that fear is what keeps people in check, and I also know for a fact that for many, if not most, people disregarding their fear and doing things they 'aren't supposed to' in reality has no consequences (at least most of the time), but for me personally everything, good AND bad, had consequences, it pretty much didn't matter if I did good or bad, I was always blamed and punished. While it didn't make me more fearful, it certainly helped keeping everybody else in line.

"I find myself to not possess empathy, or if I do, to be extremely blunted to where it often feels like none at all, I possess very strong emotions, especially that of love, and I crave love and intimacy. Though the type of love and intimacy I crave is not the type where I'd sacrifice myself for them, for I know they'd move on without me. I'd rather the entirety of those I loved and cared for me died rather than I perished."

I think like most psychopaths (myself included, though I have a little more awareness about it now) you don't really understand what love is. First of all, there can't be love without profound, deep and lasting empathy. Empathy is the engine or generator of love and without it there won't be any love.

Your following sentence about rather having your loved ones die than yourself shows that your 'love' for them isn't real because if you felt real love you could not imagine life without your loved ones, you would put them before yourself at any time.

"Yet, I crave a romantic relationship, I crave the stability, a family, romance, someone who loves me, who would do things for me selflessly, I'll even try to be like them, even though I know I can't, because I'll always expect something in turn."

John Nutt said...

+Ana
"but right now, when i am alive, the thought of what would happen to them terrifies me." Yes and what this problem of yours has to do with death? People can only care about things when they are alive, if you die before your parents you won't be worrying about them or anything else when you don't exist anymore trust me. And why are you worried to death about this for when it is much more probable that your parents will die a long time before you? Unless you are seriously considering suicide, and are wracked with guilt about what would happen to your parents if you did that?

PS it sounds like you may well Suffer from codependency.

Zhawq AmaDraque said...

Hasian (Part 2):

I know what you mean. But notice that you use the words "I want them to love me selflessly" though you know you won't be able to love them back in the same way. I'm not saying that this is wrong of you, I'm just pointing it out to show you that you don't have the ability to truly love another person - at least not at this point (if you ever will is an open question).

There is one thing that I know probably the majority of psychopaths are capable of: Momentary empathy... that is to choose to empathize in the situation and make a promise to always act in the spirit of someone who loves another or his family (by continuously empathizing every time we are near them in body or in our thoughts).

Here's an important message:

Psychopaths, when they choose to be, are probably the best husbands or wives you will ever find on this earth because we have a capacity for sticking to and honoring our promises even in the face of death or torture, and if we promise to stand by our spouse and our children and commit our lives to make the best possible life for our family, there is no way that emotional anger or disappointment or being seduced by an out of marriage partner that can make us break that promise. This is because we basically make this promise to ourselves to be the best we can be to our family, and we would see it as defeat and failure if we did not live up to it.

"I crave that more than anything, because in the moments they can convince me that not all the world is seeking eachother for something, that they [will] do something [for] me with nothing to gain, nothing to benefit from"

I believe there is no such thing as doing something for others without gaining something from it. I don't mean this in a bad way, on the contrary, I think it is build into our very existence that everything we do generates either gain or loss (the latter if nothing else then in the form of wasted time). Unconditional love is love that is based on such deep belief in the person you love that you have no worries whatsoever that your love will reciprocate or be returned in one way or another. Even if you continue to unconditionally love someone who abuses and steal from you, you gain the knowledge of being faithful (which is something that many hold in very high regard).

"they dispel my wondering of what they've got to gain, in those few moments I feel whole, before I cast them into doubt again. Though.. I'm also Borderline, so perhaps my glutamergic deficits cast my observations into doubt."

A, if you're BPD that explains a lot. You're not a psychopath after all. But as a BPD'er you do at times have all the same traits as a psychopath while at other times you have all the traits of what we might call an Empath. As a BPD'er you probably have the best of both worlds (the psychopath's and the empath's) but also the worst, which is why your minority is prone to suffer a lot, something you really do not deserve.

You have my best wishes, my friend.

Zhawq AmaDraque said...

Pixi (March 18, 2016 at 11:14 PM):

""outside factors that regularly intrude and impose upon my life"

Sorry to hear that. One would have thought those researchers had all they needed from you but maybe they just enjoy messing with you, which is rather stupid because they should know by now that you are beyond allowing them to get to you."


I don't really get the sense that it's because they enjoy messing with me, though there have been individual persons who clearly blocked my access to f.ex. medical aid out of personal enjoyment with doing so (I'm thinking of one particular surgeon here who was one of the people who denied me knee surgery), but generally speaking those who work with the psychopathy research program are genuine, if biased in what they believe, and this particular group of scientists have no directly influence over how I am treated by the authorities in the local society other than giving their recommendations as to whether any particular psychopath should be monitored more closely or confined to an institution with 24/7 surveillance.

This small country already has an almost complete control over and surveillance of their citizens (f.ex., they're the only country in the Western world who register ALL internet and stationary- or cell-phone activity!) which is being done by the authorities, and the authorities is the police. The police as complete control and are allowed to monitor, body search, arrest the citizens and enter their homes without a warrant (all they need to do is say they thought the resident had ties to or knowledge about potential future terrorist activity).

The national economy is largely socialist so people generally can't afford to go to a private hospital, and the state hospitals decide who, how, when, and why they will treat someone. Though I've paid tax for hospital and medical services all the years I've been here (even when I was in prison I build a debt that I've had to pay back after I was released) I still do not receive treatment.

"Stay strong
Pixi"


Thank you, Pixi, those words mean a lot to me. I will remember them at times when my spirit is low.

Zhawq AmaDraque said...

Anon (March 19, 2016 at 2:57 PM):

"You are not a psychopath. You are a liar."

You don't know that, but you love to think that you do.

"A liar to yourself. You love the lie, that it is you, who is the psychopath and it is you who has control (over psychopaths - nonsense, of course, but it is the lie you love)."

Don't you think if I made up a lie that I loved I would find something else to lie about? I'm not in control, if you read my articles you would know that.

"You don't like the truth"

Now that's definitely correct - at least where the present truth is concerned. But I hope I'll manage to make it better and eventually build a truth that I can genuinely like.

"that [the truth is] it is NOT YOU who is the psychopath."

So who is it? You? ;)

"You have even created a website about the lie, that it is YOU, who is the psychopath. The truth, you don't want to hear is that real psychopaths love such liars as you and have full control over you."

Show me the facts, you're full of useless platitudes that neither I, you, or anybody else can learn anything from. Your post is meaningless - and you are clearly deluded if you think you have the power to tell who are 'real' psychopaths and who aren't. You should go play somewhere else where people like to waste their time.

Ana said...

What should be even scarier?
Death should be even scarier, if you study physics, at least from my experience. I studied physics when I was 14, and I realized that it explained a lot of phenomena in the universe, that i previously understood as something that was done by God (but we call Him 'bog' in my country). I lost my faith, and i realized that death seemed alot scarier, especially when i am depressed, because i realize that my life is just going to be snuffed out someday, and that there is no afterlife or some divine being that will ensure that i will continue existing. That's what i meant, but couldn't express it because i was not really sober.

It seems great to be at peace with your fate, you're kinda lucky that you don't suffer from the existential crises that terrorizes so many people in the world.

And i just realized how mean that old guy was to you. Calling you crazy for singing in the shower is really mean. i know, that was really random.

hope you feel better soon. you're absence from this blog seems to suggest that you aren't in the best health right now. bye! :)

Anonymous said...

Part 1 of 3:

I don't believe in psychopathy anymore. There was a time in my life when I referred to these terms more often and classified people according to it, malignant narcissism, psychopaths, borderline and so on. But I gave up thinking in those terms entirely since they merely describe the reality of any person. I still use them, but they are little more than handy terms to summarize some patterns of human behaviour. In most forums the people who use those terms and who have been in abusive relationships seem to be abusive to me already by the words they use. Victimizing oneself is a powerful manipulation strategy. It is emotional blackmailing. I have a friend who has a boyfriend with deficits in showing and responding to emotions/feelings. Several times she mentioned the fact that it would all be easier for her if he would explain himself to her, on the other hand I know her emotional outbreaks, which can happen as a reaction to sometimes simply disagreeing with her, very well. So this probably contributes to the dynamics. When you know that your explanations are met with anger you wouldn't open up more easily. The three of us happen to have emotionally blackmailing mothers who always consider themselves victims of their surrounding and when we were children also victims of us. With respect to my own mother I believe that her character growth stopped at some point due to severe trauma in childhood and later. She never developed the consciousness needed to understand that the things that happen to her are also the result of her actions and way of thinking which then influences the way she interacts with other people. At the same time she enjoys to be right and morally superior and then she uses every mistake of the other person to bring herself in a more powerful, morally superior position. It is a mechanism of compensation for the failures she experienced.

I don't think that empathy as such has any moral meaning attached to me and it is annoying to me that empathy is among one of the concepts that are used to classify psychopaths. To me empathy is nothing more than a strategy we have to develop in an environment that is not predictable. Beyond that it is a lie, since it assumes that I, as the empathic person, would be able to feel the state of another person that well, that I understand what that person needs, which is nothing but an illusion. If the people you grow up with are highly unpredictable you need to develop a sense for their current state of mind in order to be able to predict the behaviour of the other person. This is however only one part of empathy. The other one is the one where I as a grown up person see another person in need and try to respond to that need. But this is a conscious decision, it is nothing that I have to do. And I am sorry for all the people whom I might "judge" wrongly now, but people who claim that are overly empathic are with respect to my experience as abusive as the ones who claim that they are not empathic. Much of the suffering in relationships just results from the fact that the apparently not empathic person doesn't respond to the emotional blackmailing of the apparently empathic person. Of course there is much more to say and things are never either black or white.

When I was a child, I was in a very similar situation which you describe in your article above and this is also why I decided to respond. Every evening I was lying in bed and praying that god would help me to be a good child. Every day I experienced the reaction of my mother telling me that I was wrong.

Anonymous said...

Part 2 of 3:

Now, as I grew up, I know that she was not functioning. She was completely controlled by whatever kind of emotional state she had that day and together with her quite sadistic trait to enjoy power and then have permission to punish and feel right situations escalated on a quite regular basis. I believe that this insane but at the same time morally judging environment is what creates "psychopaths". As you said you try to be good but your environment doesn't allow you to feel as if you are good. I was lucky that my mother many times also seeked my emotional help and support. After escalations she was many times crying, saying that she never wanted things to be that bad, but that I didn't leave her any other possibility. Of course that wasn't good either and abusive as well, since she simply refused to take responsibility, but on the other hand I experienced her despair and helplessness. In some sense I understood that she was as helpless as I felt, so I tried to be a good child again. In the course of my life I developed these annoying co-dependent traits and it took me years to understand that others are responsible for their actions. I ended up in several quite abusive relationships with sadists, psychopaths, however one might want to name them, where I loved insanely.

In my youth I was close to turn into a "psychopath" - whatever that means - as a child I stole, I lied, I ran away, I played with dead animals I found and put them on church doors and more. I did all this in a kind of innocent spirit. It was the spirit of a child that in the moment when it is born has a quite neutral view on this world. To children actions are at first neither good or bad until education happens and children are taught that it is an "evil spirit" that makes them do the wrong things, because they don't listen, or they don't behave and whatever. It is always the grown up that imposes his will on the child and he does so as long as he is powerful enough. What "saved" me from turning into a "psychopath" were in my understanding of myself two things.

First the weakness of my mother when she was crying and unhappy about our "bad" relationship, since in a childish way she simply wanted everything to be good, while it wasn't. Second, the fact that I, as honest as I could as a child, prayed to god every night that now he would finally help me to be a good child that wouldn't cause such anger in its mother anymore. By that I could, in my own subjective experience, understand how my mom could fail.

Anonymous said...

Part 3 of 3:

By now I think that we develop empathy exactly for the reason to intuitively understand the behaviour of our environment and then being able to intuitively respond to that and thus successfully manipulate our environment with respect to our own wishes. Every social interaction is manipulation. If however, one is constantly humiliated and frustrated and the attempts of the child to be good and its actual innocence - and I believe that here as human beings we don't have any other choice since understanding learning the rules is so closely tied to our survival - are unseen and many times even punished then of course at some point a child might simply give up in a mixture of anger, frustration, failure, rage and contempt. It might simply completely detach. I know this detachment, I know the contempt, I know the disgust for all these poorly functioning individuals out there that are unable to understand anything else apart from themselves. They are stupid and in denial about themselves to an extend that it is hard to believe it is true and it is all hidden behind "good intentions" as is seen in the example of that raped girl in the hospital. At the same time I always have in mind how difficult it is even to me to understand all this and myself, so I try not to judge them. Many people remain children and in some sense I look at them from what appears to me as a very rational perspective. This is nature. Everything that happens is nature and it is as simple as that, in nature morals don't exist. Frustration only develops when we don't understand that ideals are only a reflection of our fantasies about a world that would spare us suffering. With that in mind I can confirm almost everybody around me. Whether I do it and engage in an interaction just depends on my current moods and how similar I feel the other person is to my way of being. Maybe in a similar fashion that you felt there is a similarity between you and the older "psychopath".

Another thing which seems to me to be inherently wrong about the notion of psychopaths is that many people seem to assume they were in control of their actions. They are not. They are subject to their impulses as everybody else.

This has become very long. I hope it might be useful to somebody. Zhawq, I hope you are doing better. Health problems are very annoying :) I personally don't think you are a psychopath, I even think psychopathy doesn't exist. It is just that our methods to understand ourselves are flawed and the world is covered in illusions and ideals. Take care!

Lemniscus said...

I've had a similar experience as you did, zhawq. I once met this therapist during my internship. Well, long story short it ended in disaster. He believed that he was victimized and felt justified in attacking me (verbally ofc, during our sessions). He thought I was playing 'mind games' with him. I did not quite understand then - I interacted with him as I did with everyone (with unerring politeness), and was quite baffled. This was when I started to believe that perhaps my suspicions were correct (unlike you, I've never been diagnosed). I managed to minimize the damage in the end; made him believe he'd won. But really he failed himself, I was giving him total honesty, and he didn't recognize it, so I began to lie instead (ironically playing the 'mind game' he accused me of).

Just like your guy, we had this little rapport thing going on at first, until the day he labeled himself as the victim. I never saw him that way, but nevertheless I gave him an ending similar to those 'inspirational' movies they make you watch in school; where the underdog gets to triumph over the bully. He probably felt good about himself when I left for my next rotation, with his fragile ego healed, I managed to graduate without any problems.

see? psychopaths can be nice given the proper motivation. I don't mind losing, considering I get a diploma in exchange.

Anonymous said...

Nice article mate. The content was great.

I recall the exact same experiences as a child, and I am sure it had a lot to do with me developing into a pathological liar for the next 10 years or so.( The hypocrites and lack of clarity in their perspective, their lack of acceptance for me when I was being genuinely good for myself and all others involved).

I also notice that as I get to know people they want to change something - that something being my lack of deep connection and belonging. They see sameness in me and their empathy kicks in. In the neurotypical's world, there is nothing worse than being alone emotionally, and they would like to help me by bring me in from the cold so to speak. When I show or say things that represent I don't need or want this, they then assume that this is a defensive act, and that I am only pushing people away because it makes me feel better about my apparent 'loneliness'.

The attitude you talk about - "Hurt lest you get hurt first" and "control or you'll be controlled" :
Both of these attitudes clearly represent a learnt reaction of sorts, an interpreted understanding turned into an attitude to future circumstances. Both have an inherent negativity, even a slight fear or discomfort element to them. The only way I can relate to holding this actual thought pattern myself is to recall immature negative attitudes held in the past. All humans have some level of innate wish to control their environment, it is how we function in the world and get our wants and needs met; it is how we survive. This is often clearer and seemingly more direct in psychopaths because we don't have all the internalised social conditioning going on at the same time. We are just a bit simpler and more direct about it. A point that is often confused in this area is narcissism, which some psychopaths are also high in, and then there is a strong pathological need for validation and managing of self esteem which leads to them wanting to control others for these personal emotional benefits. When I am not in the grips of negative, emotionally driven thought processes, my attitude is far more cut and dry, strategic and fact based than the attitude quoted.

All for now, cheers mate,
Jay




Anonymous said...

Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts.
Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts.
Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me...
Anything can happen, child. Anything can be.
Shel Silverstein

Anonymous said...

nice poem^
Jay