Wednesday, May 27, 2015

Psychopathy And The Role Of Experts.


I published an article yesterday but can't see it anywhere on my blog, so in the meantime until it shows up I will post an exchange between myself and a Reader who asks some very interesting questions about the concept of psychopathy and the role that so called psychopathy experts play... 
I would like your opinion on something. I'm having a bit of trouble with believing this whole 'psychopathy diagnosis'. Why is it that the world has taken on the notion of this diagnosis without trying to objectively evaluate it?
It has to do with some changes in society where people began to put more emphasis on 'order' and uniformness. But just as much does it have to do with the evolution of psychology, the wish to put nature and the world on a formula, again out of a wish for more order, for a world that man could predict and mold as he saw fit. In such a world it is not surprising that people also want to control each other's behavior.
Personally I do believe there is a distinct personality type that is different to other personality types (ASPD,BPD etc.),which has some of the features of Psychopathy. However I don't think it is as black and white as some people suggest. I've met people in my life who have certain features of psychopathy, and I also wonder whether 'psychopathy' is subject to change.
There are indeed happening some very fundamental changes in how psychopathy is viewed right now, but it happens at the cutting edge of psychopathy research and will take a long time to catch on in the general forensic community. 

That said, Hare's musing were not wrong per se, the people he describes exist. The new - or renewal of old - findings are that there are also an even larger group of psychopaths who don't fit the highly antisocial criteria. While psychopathy as such, as a personality type if you will, is genetically inherent in the individual from pre-birth, the antisocial components seems to come down to the old question about upbringing.
WARNING: I'm GOING TO BE A LITTLE MEAN NOW. Dr Robert Hare is full of bullshit. The man has tried to sensationalise this whole concept. He makes around $35,000 a year just because people believe the drivel that comes out of his mouth. I'm saying this all independently to my thoughts around the existence of the psychopathy diagnosis. Whether the man is right or not, he still talks a lot of bullshit. He has tried to stop people publishing work because it goes against his measure, which is food for thought.
Well, psychopaths have been sensationalized for a long time, Hare certainly did not invent that. But it's interesting that he has tried to stop publication of work that disagrees with his own theories. You're not thinking of Don Johnson's 'The Psychopathy Test', are you? He was very hurt over the way Johnson ironicized over the whole concept. Personally I love the book and think it was fresh air in a debate that has too long been all about serial killers and movie characters, i.e.
Also I work in mental health and originally wanted to pursue a career in Clinical Psychology. Now though I am starting to question the whole profession (e.g. I don't like the concept of depriving people of their liberty ,say for example, just because they believe they might be Jesus etc.). Does the concept of a 'psychopath' serve a morally cleansing purpose i.e. there is no way someone 'normal/non-psychopathic' could possibly commit such a heinous crime?
One word: Nazi Germany. - Or IOW, yes, normal people can very much commit such heinous crimes. All they need is to be told by an authority and be given the promise of being 100% responsibility free. 

Another thing is that you can commit heinous atrocities against humans without being criminal at all. We all see it - even though we may not "see" it because it has become the norm. Where I currently live most that we know about humankind has become a parody hidden only just beneath a surface from under which most of people's lives are revolving around mentally and economically hurting and keeping others down. It's all about fear of seeing that they have lost their own humanity, sold their souls for a false sense of security by suspecting everything that walks and talks and pledging eternal obedience to the state. Half the population lives alone and about half the population works for this faceless state that has cleverly arranged it so that they can never be held responsible for any wrongdoing.
Anyway to sum up these are my thoughts on the topic. I could be entirely wrong, and I am quite open to adapt my beliefs if I'm presented with new evidence. I am simply contemplating the topic. Nonetheless ,whether psychopathy is a static, black and white diagnosis or not, we can't deny the amount of money that is to be had from such a concept.
Well seen. Still, I think the question is more about how we define psychopathy than whether people like myself exist or not. But again, sensationalize anything and you can make a lot of money from it. 
P.S: I hope you find some relief from the knee pain, as someone who suffers from arthritis I can empathise a little (I am in my early 20s).
Thank you. I have met several people over the years who suffered with arthritis, and I remember wondering how hurtful and limiting it must be to have such a condition. I had a neighbor once who used to come over so I could button up her blouse and jacket. I was impressed by her always apparently good spirit, though she took a lot of drugs to withstand the pain she was always ready with a smile and interested in hearing the latest news.

I don't know if I have told you what you wanted to know, but then, I myself am also not quite without pain these days and it has a way of messing with your ability to focus. And, as we know, I have issues in that regard already, so... But don't hesitate to ask me again if I missed something.

..........

PS. I would have posted this Reader's text in it's entirety, but it came up on a white background like we saw a recent article do. The text can be viewed under the article named 'A Psychopath Begins To Tell His Story' in the comments section.

30 comments:

rb said...

You claim to be upset. Why ? Becasue something i wrote...Fuck hell...
Are you the "closet" narcissist. I do think so. Fuck zhahk. Youre a fuck up but in comparsion to you, Ḯm probably san. I'm the realpsychopath and most likely. And so is stuart braithwatie. Something about being born in may..... You reached a certain IQ level, and psychiatrists don't wanna treat you.. Intrinsically they know you are on to something.... Fuck it all.... Keep your smartness.... Just behave your silly fuck... And stop ranting about being pissed at me.... That is just foolish narcissism. Not fucking Psychopathy..
Yeah life is tough and once in a while one question oneself another time. It will pass, with some deeper insight... To comfort you... No untrue psychopath find pleasure in this song. So what are you ? I know it. But do you ?..... There is a level of where psychopaty gives up. Aka society. One become a Nitetsche or just another retard...

Why da fuck do really care ??? Fuck it all.. That is just bullshit... Youre searching for yourself, mate. And here is a "psychopath" song for everyone. (Fucking stupid concept).
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=i%27m+jim+morrison+i%27m+dead+
Fucking old and still incredible fantastic "Were from Glasgow, Scotland",,,, Fucking hell. Best autorock band out there.

Zhawk. Keep searching. Just give a fuck about pretending. You have plenty good sides within you

Mikey Mike said...

Fucling Hell: Scotland's Shame... Sick.. 1 of the best tunes of Mogwai... Fucking sick... So fucking much hidden hatred. As in " You dont know Jesus".. Fucking live version of that.:
Pure fucking disguedes hatred and contempt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8vV_-wuX28

Fuck it Zhawk. People like you and me have very different limits. But none the less, we're both considered "outcasts"... Just play along with that bullcrap and give a fuck about it. Try to maximize your own position and give a shit about that "hatred". People will like you anyway. Fucking hidden diamonds. EVen psychiatrist do like us to some point. Just give a fuck about that meaningless antisocial shit you have been doing and listen to some songs straight to the point: Like this fucking masterpiece from Mogwai
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8vV_-wuX28

Mikey Mike said...

I ask every wannabe fucking psychopath :

"Do you know Jesus ? "..


Mostly they are fucking retards who wanna be bad, but has no clue about it. Fuck it.. Skip that shit.. Getintroverted your mother fucker

Mikey Mike said...

I know alreadt. Your approximating a pissed off INTP. Just curios about who you were at age 5- :) YOU DONT FUCKING KNOW JESUS.. This song is pure aggression. Not something wannabe- tough...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25KeCZh-jW0

Mikey Mike said...

I just fucking know it all, and I am not impressed. That makes me an outcast. Since I have not murdered anyone, Im spared of the psychopath diagnosis. But as I have said before, "who is the real psychopath". Fucking bullshit all of it. Anyone who dig this shit, is a "psychopath". But spiritually speaking it is a fucking masterpieces. Those other are just dumb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25KeCZh-jW0

Mikey Mike said...

And this is probably why I am a paranoid. Lol. It is as stupid as soceity get. I did say though: label me whatever fuck you want to, just as long as I got the disabled pension I give a fuck of what you lower IQ tards wanna label it ;) (Who is the real psychopath. It is all fucking stupid).. I say to everyone I meet that if you dont get this song, you just dont get it. Youre just another fucking brick in the wall:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25KeCZh-jW0


Zhawk. You know what i am talking about. But then again, every thing has multiple sides

Mikey Mike said...

Again. Their is not one fucking "primer pscyhopath" or whatever they prefer, who doesn't get the aggresion of this song: And what the fuck. Imagine that.... They fucking earned money on it ; Hmmm... Who are the "normals" fuck it ALL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25KeCZh-jW0

Mikey Mike said...

Lol--- Some fucking normal I just discovered. Swindled me a lighter. "No big deal"... Well if it wasnt for the law, it would have been enough for me to beat those crap of so called "humans" to death with my own hand while laughing. Lol. Psychopathy ? Whatever. Some people only learn to behave by that "psychopathic" standard. So does society seems to mean. Fuck it all.... It is just a bunch of crap.. Just behave "semi-politically" correct...

Mikey Mike said...

There is a latent aggression in every true "psychopath".... I call it personality... Others call it...

Mikey Mike said...

Sometimes I just wonder abut you Zhawk. You either care to much or your IQ is pretty high. Those "psychopaths" I know, would simply have given a fuck. Despite killing or beating someone to semi death. Thing is, in quite a few of those episodes, I probably would have agreed with them.. People are basically shit. That is the reason why they want to label others shit (psychopahts).. Fucking egocentric crap... As most of the world is...

FUck it all:::: Or as Mogwai puts it... You dont know jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25KeCZh-jW0

Anonymous said...

"If youre so clever..... "

Fucking hell. I have 19/20 on this piece of funny shit and entertainment. "If they are so clever", then why the fuck don't they solve 5 of them.... Stupid retards.... If your clever enough you just don't get labeled "psychopath". Schizoid is better. Same fucking crap. And even most pyschiatrists know it in their heart...

Just fucking behave Zhawhk. Youre turning into a big narcissist. Stop that crap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25KeCZh-jW0

And a little puzzle
http://free.ultimaiq.net/numerus_basic.htm

Anonymous said...

Even my fucking Numerus Baisc score, 19 of 20, would probably be "psychopathic" if those fucking retards wanted it to be so,,, Some don't though. I know by experience. But the "aid" is "I think you will figure yourself out faster than I can".... Shit it all... Semi-science bullshit.... Just behave... And don't give a bull about others... "Schizoid" sound a lot better than "psychopath". But once in your life, you were just too stupid to see the differences. That was then

Mikey Mike said...

Hey mate don't stress so much about. And stop playing victim. There too many "victim-psychopaths" already.. You have the wrong gender.

Psychopathy is just a label. Very often given to those that are pretty smart, but not smarter then the psychiatrist him or her self. Given some past history to back it up, it does become convenient. You have been a retard for killing those people. Despite the fact that I know that you probably did mankind a favour of getting rid of some of the garbage. As you have told me before: "They don't see it that way"... So, as Røyksopp sings' "What else is there" ???... Fuck it all.. most pychiatrist are low level IQ. The smarter ones would not just get a song, that depends of your life history, as "You dont know Jesus"... Take care. Better times will surely come around. You are a lot smarter than what you have been told.. Maybe that is all that there is too it. But they dont care, so just behave, Zhawk.

Mikey Mike said...

you probably have about 110-120 in IQ, since you have not seen this shit before. I have my disability and can move to spain. :)... As Dr. Dre puts it in his classic song; Thats the difference between me and you,,

Please dont stress yourself to much up about. You would only be playing "their" game. Apart from that, as you know already, some valuable points can be learned.

Just behave every psychpath wannabe out there

Mikey Mike said...

Oh fucking hell... For all the "psychopaths" out there... Im just proud to be born on the same day as Stuart B.

There is a level above "psychopathy". Then one behaves. And at the next level there is: Mogwai
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2aFPe7mrhg

Anonymous said...

Welll.... My original thought was that i enjoyed your latest article. Your starting to clime from "psychopathy" to "mogwai" and I know you have it all in you. Just relax on those narc traits

Mikey Mike said...

Zhawk a hypothetical question. You and I meet at a pub. You start frogging yourself up, as in the story of the frog and the cow (aesops fables)... I would probably laugh and tell you what a joke you were. Would you try to kill me later ? And if so how ? ... You knocked on my door and I would probably just take it as challenge. Disarm you of your knife and put it a couple of times in your legs (probably enjoying it too)... Who is the true psychopath ? I am diagnosed as a non-psychopath.. Just mentioning it for the thought and mental exercise. (I love fighting and I do think it is fun, despite most weapongs as long it isnt a gun. The rest just make me feel alive. The bigger opponent, the more intersting. Again, as long as no gun are involved). What is really the difference ?

Yet again. Beside the genious of Morrisey. Music world can express the same thoughts in a shorter and more fancy way :) (This is a fucking legend to me)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDgIUXnOWtc

Now there is 2 "mensa-member" who never bothered. Fucking Slim and Dre. Dre is a musical ... YEah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDgIUXnOWtc

Mikey Mike said...

If I were sober, Id put it all into a single post.

Since I am not... Fuck it, Dre. from around 2000. That is "mentally inspiring music". The rest... All that psychpath shit... Zhawk grow up, which you are actually doing. Think about it. What is really the difference ? Apart from behaviour ? Youre not fucking alone. Even among a lot of famous people out there. "Psychopathy" ? .. nah... You have just done some "psychopathic" stuff, aka stupid shit, earlier in your life.

Every once in a while we all feel for that shit. We just dont do it. Or as Dre illustrates in this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA770wpLX-Q

Mikey Mike said...

I've been a fan of those two since chronic 2000. Fucking hell. Slim's performance in that video makes me cry. Pretty much each time I watch it. "I see none of them , all I see is Slim"... Fucking backstabbers..
Not even backstabbers. Just how it goes..
"Psychopathy".... It is all fucking bullshit to some degree. The norm is "psychopathy low". The rest is basically about behvioural choices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA770wpLX-Q

Ettina said...

"I would like your opinion on something. I'm having a bit of trouble with believing this whole 'psychopathy diagnosis'. Why is it that the world has taken on the notion of this diagnosis without trying to objectively evaluate it?

...

Personally I do believe there is a distinct personality type that is different to other personality types (ASPD,BPD etc.),which has some of the features of Psychopathy. However I don't think it is as black and white as some people suggest. I've met people in my life who have certain features of psychopathy, and I also wonder whether 'psychopathy' is subject to change."

As a psychologist in training who has read a lot of research into psychopathy, I feel the urge to comment on this.

Firstly, psychopathy *has* been objectively evaluated. In order for a personality trait to be considered valid, it must meet several criteria. First, measures of that trait have to succeed on a statistical test called the Cronbach's alpha, which measures the extent to which the items on that test correlate with each other (which implies that they measure the same underlying thing). Second, the trait has to be stable over time - not 100% stable, but significantly better than chance. And thirdly, it has to predict other variables in a way that makes sense with what the trait is supposed to mean. A number of research studies, using several different psychopathy measures (not just the PCL-R - in fact, it's one of the poorer tests), have found that the trait of psychopathy meets all three of those criteria.

However, it certainly is not black-and-white. No matter which test is used, the scores are always found to be continuously distributed, with most people earning very low scores, some getting slightly higher scores, some getting moderate scores, some high scores and some getting extremely high scores. Precisely where to draw the line is somewhat uncertain.

But just because there's a spectrum doesn't mean there isn't a purpose to defining a category of people with an extreme degree of a particular trait. Autism is on a similar kind of spectrum, but those who score extremely high on autistic traits show important differences from normal people and need to be managed differently (eg avoiding sensory overload, using direct and unambiguous communication, etc). Similarly, those who score extremely high on psychopathic traits need to be managed differently (eg motivating by rewards rather than punishment, explaining moral concepts in terms of self-interest, etc). And if we are trying to identify extreme high scorers, we need to use some sort of categories, even if that means picking an arbitrary dividing line.

Anonymous said...

G'day Mate,
Was not quite clear from that if it was infered that part of your problem is arthritis. If it is, there is a secret to help it. That 102yo grandma of mine came down with it bad at about 60yo...and she changed to a lemon tea every morning. Apparently the acid in lemons is a natural fix, and after a year it was gone. She kept up the practice for a few years every day, and it cured it. She only has a lemon tea occasionally now and has been free of the worst arthritis stuff for over 40 years since. Jay

Zhawq said...

Hello everybody,

it's morning where I'm at. I'm going to get myself some coffee and some pain killers, and then I'll be back with replies. '^L^,

Zhawq said...

rb May 27, 2015 at 6:27 PM

"You claim to be upset. Why ? Becasue something i wrote...Fuck hell...
Are you the "closet" narcissist. I do think so. Fuck zhahk. Youre a fuck up but in comparsion to you, Ḯm probably san. I'm the realpsychopath and most likely. And so is stuart braithwatie. Something about being born in may..... You reached a certain IQ level, and psychiatrists don't wanna treat you.. "


Lol, what are you rambling about? I'm not upset about anything you said and psychiatrists certainly do not refuse to treat me - I wish they did. Yes, I have a certain IQ level, it's 148, but what does that have to do with anything?

"Intrinsically they know you are on to something.... Fuck it all.... Keep your smartness.... Just behave your silly fuck... And stop ranting about being pissed at me.... That is just foolish narcissism. Not fucking Psychopathy.."

Right now it is you who are rambling, my good man. :)

"Yeah life is tough and once in a while one question oneself another time. It will pass, with some deeper insight... To comfort you..."

Now this makes me think you haven't read what the problem is about. It is not something that will go away without surgery, it's getting worse and I am likely to die before my time because I'm denied my human rights. I have a right to be upset about that, and if the right people see me writing about it it hasn't been for nothing.

I didn't mean to upset you, my dear boy, I just mentioned you in passing because I saw you hadn't understood what my problem is all about.

"Why da fuck do really care ???"

Because it is my life they're destroying, that's why.

"Fuck it all.. That is just bullshit... Youre searching for yourself, mate. And here is a "psychopath" song for everyone. (Fucking stupid concept).
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=i%27m+jim+morrison+i%27m+dead+
Fucking old and still incredible fantastic "Were from Glasgow, Scotland",,,, Fucking hell. Best autorock band out there."


Thanks for the link. You know, I often think the same way: "Fuck it all", especially when I was younger, but now I'm thinking it may not be such a bad idea to go back to that. But at first I'm going to wait and see if it's all lost. If it isn't, there's a lot I can do to make things better for people like us in the future - not alone, of course, but I can give my two cents, and I know they're worth something. That's knowledge, not narcissism.

"Zhawk. Keep searching. Just give a fuck about pretending. You have plenty good sides within you"

Thanks, pal. And likewise. - I'm not sure what you mean about pretending, but never mind that. And thanks for the song again. '^L^,

rb said...

Drinking spam... That was a big one. I am impressed you manage to find something in it.

"Pretending", is to get the idea that you are so very different from "they". I think a lot of it is coincindences in this shit. If they had walked in your shoes, and such.

If someone had killed Hitler in 38, he would be deemed psychopath by the german governing system back then. We all know, that despite that little diagnostic fact, the non-existing psychopath of 38, would have done mankind a favor, most likely. The governmental view of it all, is presented through the law. And the DSM is more founded in "the law" than in "the truth". Just think about what it did to "homophilia" as a diagnosis. The law accepted it, so the DSM just pulled it out of the "illnesses". Yeah...really scientific that one...

Soldiers kill. They are not deemed "psychopaths". They kill for the law.. What is really the difference ? In-group Vs out-group. Good old social psychology. With us or against us, as Bush said.

And that is why I don't think you are that different. You basically tipped over on some occasions, did some stupid shit, against and not for the law. I am a little bit preoccupied by how you manage to do it in the end. There are logical reasons, but yes, where did your emotional limits go ? What have someone done to you, to eradicate those limits ? Hare would say "nothing, he is born that way". I don't think that explains it all. Far from. Take away your worst acts from your record, and you are probably a lot more normal than you think. That is what I mean by not pretending. To not distance yourself further into the diagnosis, or label.

I am posting those IQ-tests, a little bit because that is how boring my own life has become. But also a little bit to see if you can get a little eureka moment. Maybe half your diagnosis is merely never being told that your had more academic talents that you were ever given the chance to claim. Some people prefer to think they have "worked" for the salary. Or that they are just born smarts, and others are born evil. It is sweeter than acknowledging that some people just never really had a chance for a similar fulfilling life within the frames of a normal society. That some people were just lucky. Having a good childhood with very decent parents. But it is what it is. Cannot get to bitter about it either. It isn't fixed. Things change. Also oneself.

I am thinking about giving up all this "psychology" investigations myself. They just gets sillier and sillier. By experience, I know that most psychologists totally lack a lot of extreme life-experience. They never lived that life. But they read a little about it.. They are so self-assure. that normally takes an IQ under 125, to be able to sleep happily knowing so little, yet being so sure that one even condemns the future of other human beings, like those "sick psychopaths", without doubts... Yet they know it, and nothing will probably change that in a long time. Is it my problem ? Nope. Fortunately I haven't done anything too shitty, to "deserve" that outcast diagnosis.

In principal, I do think every "freethinker", is a potential "psychopath", so I can sympathize to a sort of abnormal level. It basically comes down to behavior. Isolation and distancing oneself or being distanced by others, will increase the likelihood of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. A negative spiral.

If you can get a disability, get away to a sunny country, and start over again. Wiser, and less aggressive than in your youth. Yeah, maybe that is about as good as life can get. Or just save up the little you can, for a holiday now and then. Flights are cheap, still.

Zhawq said...

Mikey Mike,

what shall I do with all those posts, there are so many. I think I'll pick the best and reply to that...

First of all, thanks for the music URLs.

"Like this fucking masterpiece from Mogwai
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8vV_-wuX28"


I'll be sure to go and listen to it when I have time.

"Zhawk. You know what i am talking about. But then again, every thing has multiple sides"

There's no arguing about that. Would be nice if a few more understood it.

"Lol--- Some fucking normal I just discovered. Swindled me a lighter."

Haha, that must've been a hardened criminal. - By the way, I would never be able to count the number of cheap lighters that people "forgot" to give me back after borrowing them. Most of the time it is people who would never consciously steal from anyone, there's just something about these cheap lighters that makes them forget it is someone else's property and they have only borrowed it, not been given it (though I did that just as often - give the lighters away).

"you probably have about 110-120 in IQ,"

148.

""Psychopathy" ? .. nah... You have just done some "psychopathic" stuff, aka stupid shit, earlier in your life."

Should've been you who diagnosed me every time, then. lol

"Oh fucking hell... For all the "psychopaths" out there... Im just proud to be born on the same day as Stuart B"

The music producer? I see. Yeah, he's done very well for himself, no doubt about that.

"Zhawk a hypothetical question. You and I meet at a pub. You start frogging yourself up, as in the story of the frog and the cow (aesops fables)... I would probably laugh and tell you what a joke you were. Would you try to kill me later ?"

I can't say because something like that would never happen.

What I can say is that I wouldn't go and kill somebody because they oppose me in a debate. I would only kill if I was threatened on my life or one I care about was threatened and/or deeply degraded. I can't stand people who are disrespectful to others whom they don't know.

There was a time before the authorities took it upon themselves to look after everybody's safety and dignity (as well as when someone's safety and dignity was worth being looked after or not), but before that time it was completely legal to call a fight to the death, a so called duel, if your dignity or that of your close ones was threatened or assaulted. In those days we didn't have to worry so much about being treated right because people knew that if they didn't behave - as you call it - there was a chance that they would see consequences.

Now a days nobody respects anybody, not really. Not even those who are there to protect us are being respected and in return they have pretty much stopped doing their job. Everybody think and say bad about everybody else because that is all they see and all they get - for a big part, anyway.

Of course there's more to it than that, but this is a big part of it.

"I am diagnosed as a non-psychopath."

What is your diagnosis, then? Will you tell us?

Once again thanks for all the cool music video URLs. I will check them out, but not all at once. It's good to have something to look at when you feel like listening to a new tune you haven't heard before.

If you need a sure cure for hangovers, feel free to ask. I know one that works. '^L^,

rb said...

An example of that silliness I mentioned:

If your disobey the law, no matter on what ground, psychopath
If you criticize the running system, paranoid
If you give a fuck about most of it all, schizoid
If you get "ideas" and act on "ideas" and not just the impulsive pleasure principal, number 1 may be changed to schizophrenia. Also number 2. As we all know that Jesus Christ would have been diagnosed, living today.

Refering to men here. If you are a woman, the put you all into the "borderline" bag

It seems to be a lot about not admitting that the running correctness, as in system, is not so perfect after all. So who is the real "psychopath/narcissist".. Makes me wonder and at a certain point, it does become as meaningless and waste of time, to wonder about it all, as it is to wonder about life after death. I'm pretty close to reaching that point, for the second time, in my life. Spending mind-energy on something else. Lifting weights again, getting some hormones back in the body and do what "healthy and normal" people do... Fuck around like rabbits spreading the venereal diseases. All out of boredom, entitlement and "stuckness". And in their irresponsibility claiming their social benefits for the IQ-low children they spit out into the society. Another no-gooder. Yeah.. That is fantastic healthy..
"It is normal!.. It was just emotions that made me pregnant. I cannot help it. I am an "empath".... I am a victim.. A "psychopath" fucked me.. I was drunk.. "Helpless".. "
Well.. I am just not paying for their normality :)

There is a point beyond "bitterness". It is pretty close to schizoid. One just has to laugh about it all, for a while, than once again, first one stops participating, and the one just turn off the whole movie that seems to be playing..

I don't wanna spread my past onto others. No one should. You seem to be very self-aware of that now as a grown up. That is very good. Probably better than most.

Anonymous said...

Don't wanna go to much into diagnosis. Basically they are a product of how dangerous to the tribe, a psychiatrist believe you or the observant is. It isn't rocket science. Never will be. To study medicine, after all, one has to be pretty narcish and also lack other good alternatives for spare time activities. Not so many top sportsmen or model potential take the effort to work hard enough at high school, to get the grades. Then you have all those who simply don't have the correct family conditions for such things as school. Then ADHD and then some.. I am not saying they are not smart. Just not as smart as what most people believe, including many of them selves.... When it comes to life experience... Nuff said..

I'll try to post a note on the more serious side. I had a really tough upbringing. Not much public help to get. I did though, get some understanding and efforts to comfort me, from some of the parents of some of my friends. Others too, on occasions. Basically their mothers. Didn't fix the situation, but it felt good. I felt less alone. Maybe I could say I felt seen. To some degree. I also saw that there are good people out there. It isn't all about pure egotism.

I also used music. The lyrics, the beat and such, to figure out what the artists may have thought, may have felt. I felt less alone, by doing that too. My music suggestions to you, is an illustration of this. They are, for you, to be taken with a grain of salt. For me, they have at some point, made me feel less alienated. Just imagine, that if an artist that I like, can have a million and more fans, how alone can one really be ?

I also used music in my youth, for chit chat. I got to know a lot of people. Got some inspirations. Understanding that emotionally speaking, we were on the pretty same planet. Again, avoiding distancing myself. Avoiding making myself so special. Neither great nor bad.

In the end, I guess those times and experiences can be seen by a psychiatrist. I'm shouting about it to you, because I simply believe that the "society" will believe you are a very alien creature. You don't need to maximize their ideas. Instead you should focus on the similarities.

At the emotional level, I would consider myself somehow a normal that is just very used to having to be alone in the world... On the rational level, my preferences for contemplating, for introspection, for analyzing, they are more different and alienating. So it is for you. I don't know what came first. Illogical upbringing producing a logical preference, or just some biological factor making the upbringing very irrational for a more logically oriented person. It is what it is..

That contemplating side of yours, can also alienate you. In it self it can be a tool for the opposite, but chances are, you will most likely very rarely meet people in the real world, to whom you can have a "decent" chat, by your standards.
That you probably know well already. But you should also know, that I among others, appreciate yourself expressing yourself and that side of you, here at your blog.

Zhawq said...

I had a very tough day yesterday. I really meant to continue replying but the pain kept shattering my concentration and made it difficult for me to even stand up and walk over to the computer.

Today is another day, and when I've had a bath and some coffee I'll continue where I left.

Ettina's well thought through comment is next and there's enough to come after that. Hopefully I can keep going for several hours after most of the day yesterday off.

Anonymous said...

You got to look on the bright side of life.
At least you are not diagnosed inadequate. No one ever gave you that label :D ... Dat thing is turning more and more into a joke. Do as we command, or we shall find or make a label for you

Inadequate psychopaths:

Form a high risk sub group for acting-out (self-harm). Generally, the more inadequate the person's level of functioning/personality, the more the risk of self-harm (particularly when upset and/or under high stress). Inadequate psychopaths tend to be more impulsive and may show little respect for their bodies (slash marks, burns, "jailhouse" tattoos, etc). They tend to lack social skills and intelligence and they are basically very vulnerable to complex situations, to pressure or to stress. They perform poorly when in ambiguous situations or situations requiring complex decision making and judgement. It is common for these persons to act out violently against themselves when frustrated or when backed into a corner: the "cornered rat syndrome." Slashing is a common method of relieving frustration and gaining a feeling of control.


http://www.positivedisintegration.com/psychopathy.htm#a10


What a mess....

Zhawq said...

Ettina,

as I wrote above I meant to write a comment to you here. Instead I have written an article. It's names 'Psychopathy's Role In Modern Psychology'.

Maybe I could've given it a more suiting title, but I hope you like it even so.

Thank you for your thoughtful and well founded words. One can tell you've thought before you put pen to paper and the result is good.

I hope your study is going well... '^L^,