Wednesday, March 11, 2015

Psychopaths & The Supernatural.



Reader posted a comment under the article 'Psychopaths & Supernatural Experiences. He wrote it a long time ago, but it stuck with me because it's about a subject that you can say is close to my heart. So now I've decided to not only re-post it, but to reply to it as it unfolds...
"I believe ... psychopaths are highly sensitive. I am highly sensitive. I'm not a christian, not a satanist, but if I had to choose I would choose spiritual satanist, or maybe a gnostic luciferian."
This could have been me who wrote this 20 year ago.
"What I mean to talk about is that, what you psychopaths feel, some of them might be demons. I have had many experiences with them, for real, I've seen them too. And I'm not mentally ill. I feel them as I would feel humans."
For people everywhere who experience and sense what we call 'the Spiritual World' or the 'Astral Plane' (my personal name of choice is The Wider Reality) these days, and especially since the took on it's heartless dogmatism and brutally persecuted everybody who didn't follow Christianity - As It Was Interpreted To Be The Only Real Truth At Any Given Time - and which in current day has grown into a materialism never before encountered, a materialism where being a believer of not just any religion, but even of Christianity, is looked upon as something we slightly pity - these gullible people who can believe in words written in a book!!... We think of them as largely children who have lost their way but who'll eventually find their way back to reality.

These people -not only the Christians, but people who may not even have a faith, experience supernatural things that simply cannot be explained otherwise, and they're being ridiculed and laughed at, sometimes never to be believed again. So NO WONDER people keep quiet about having experiences of so called Supernatural nature. But I tell you, it is far more common than we are in habit of thinking. Even people who have the very same out-of-body experiences as we've had look at us as if're ready to be committed immediately because we're obviously insane. Indeed, those who have the experiences themselves are often the best at playing the game "I don't believe in that crazy talk! She must be lying" or "What'll it be next week" She just wants attention, and besides, I always knew something wasn't completely right in her brain!"

Now as for psychopaths and normal people and whether we are different in what we experience or how we feel about it, I guess that normally we are different.

We're used to think of it as something that is deeply dependent on emotion, and not just love, compassion or empathy, thought these when felt truly and strongly, can mediate strong experiences.. Now the truth is that any emotion can accomplish this if it is strong enough, not just empathy or love. Indeed, very negative emotions can be just as powerful is rarely progressive. That's why we hear about satanic cults who have called upon some Demon and created havoc in an area.
"I think that not all demons aren't bad, I think that it's possible that a human can be more evil than some demons."
I have held back with saying this because it is so obviously non Christian, but now that you, a Reader of mine have proven to be more brave than I, I can no longer hold my tongue and insist I am telling the truth.

Demons are definitely not all bad, and angels are certainly not all angelic. In fact it is just as often the opposite way around, and the reason for that is the reason why the whole world exists as a whole: If there were such a strict line between good and evil, the two would be parted eternally in a way that could never reconciled because it would be two halfs not of the same thing, but of two different things, namely Good, and Bad.
"And feeling chosen? There's no doubt that demons would like to work with you and like you, mainly because lack of empathy and that you're highly sensitive."
Being Chosen in modern day is obviously very difficult because we live in a very a-religious era where all right people has to be chosen for all the right for the right positions,..people who - like you - aren't in it for the Glory, the gold and wealth, and the position, and these things often begins to softly creep in, often when your mind is most at ease.

When that happens, you know the time has come when you will be tested (again): Will you be able to lay it all behind you, your millions, your social status, your contracts, your tours, your beautiful houses, your yacht and your cars that you would've died for rather than seeing them go to another buyer...even your marriage! Your health because now nobody will allow you the treatment you have the right by law to receive, because now you're in the hands of the state, and in that country state is law, the state is god!!

A smaller Demon will always be interested in a human being while a larger Demon or Angel will be interested in people who are what we call Chosen. The interest does however also depend upon you. It is with this as with almost everything in life, it goes two ways. Only creatures with god-like status like Christ or Satan can force their will upon a person with next to no fight from the Chosen (ex. of Chosen people in various cultures),

Will you leave it all behind and watch your health wane while your money are frozen overseas, money you may never see again even though it wasn't much but nevertheless a $ twenty+ million that would make it possible for you to start over again - some would even say in style?...Would you take your "repentance" so far?

Would you let it all go for such a test because you had to be true to yourself?... I did.

Some would say that a psychopath would never act this unselfish. Well guess what, it was unselfish! But would I do it again? Now that I know what I would face, the hypocrisy, the narrow minded and small mindedness that I have never known, the envy that I never understood (even though they say it's such a typical trait in psychopaths), I don't know.

I've spoken about this before, but let me say it again: I can be sadistic, yes. But it is never out of envy. It can be out of anger if someone who thinks I should be envious of him plays on that, but never because of envy in and on itself. I've never seen the point! If I see someone wearing a hat I would like to wear, I don't get mad at him, I'll just make sure I get that had too, and a version that is better that his, that's all Not even now that I'm pretty much at the bottom. No, what drives me is something much cleaner that that.

Perhaps this is why I always liked the movies where the villain - despite that he looses - has the last word and says something that sticks with our minds long after the movie screen has faded away. Someone who was wise after all. This is also why we like Hannibal Lecter in spite of ourselves. Just see how much franchise is produced over this one movie character: here.

I guess we should end this article with the ever recurring question: Can psychopaths be religious?

And the answer is: Yes, psychopaths can be religious just as other people can be religious....Or perhaps that isn't quite true. Psychopaths can be religious alright, even more so than most others, but be religious 'like' others we cannot. - Or let me say it this way: I've met and seen/observed a good number of religious psychopaths, some of which were faking religion. But I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about, and interested in, those who really does believe in this or that religion - not rarely, by the way, a religion that no one else believes in because one one else has heard of it. It was custom made to the psychopath, made precisely to form and fit with his mind and inner workings,

The funny thing, you might say, is that this is the case for everybody who reaches a high state of religiousness. You simply cannot be ultimately and personally religious in the exact same way that everybody else would be....But that is a story for another article.

43 comments:

Anonymous said...

"...it is never out of envy. It can be out of anger if someone who thinks I should be envious of him plays on that, but never because of envy in and on itself....No, what drives me is something much cleaner that that.

Perhaps this is why I always liked the movies where the villain - despite that he loses - has the last word and says something that sticks with our minds...Someone who was wise after all. This is also why we like Hannibal Lecter in spite of ourselves."

What stuck in my mind was the scene between Hannibal and Clarice when she was trying to understand the mind of Buffalo Bill.

Hannibal Lecter: "What is the first and principal thing he does? What need does he serve? He covets! That is his nature..."

A synonym for covet is envy.

So what drives you, Zhawq? You say it is 'cleaner' than envy, so what is it? Do you even know?

Anonymous said...

I have a lot of respect for you Zhawq, as you know. I must say that this particular article is so rough it does not sound like you at all- it seems to be lacking clarity and structure not fitting of your writing.

Is this someone hacking your account and trying to pass off a bad impersonation, you high as fuck and off your head???

The only bit of clarity I found in the entire piece was the point that anyone with a well developed belief in their mind will have an individuality about it.

Something is awry here.

Anonymous said...

You "let it all go" to be true to yourself...but you found out it didn't get you what you wanted, so you wouldn't do it again. Oh, but wait! you did it to be true to yourself! OR, umm, did you do it to get some result out of other people? I'm sorta confused. Are you?

Of course psychopaths have their very own custom-made religions. What else would they have, a religion designed for the little people? No way, they need a better religion, one worthy of their grandiose selves, worthy of their Chosen status by the "larger demons."

I'm not christian nor am I any religion. I lack whatever gene is involved in that. But I also lack the gene involved in being "Chosen" and having my very own brand of religion. Only psychopaths have that gene.

Do you realize, Zhawq, that you contradict yourself in every sentence of every post on this website? I don't think you see it.

Even if you're trying to put one over on us, you don't see that you can't put one over on us. You lack consistency. Your malleable identity has no grounding firm enough to sustain your farce even through one paragraph.

I think you're trying to understand yourself, and that's why you write. You're looking for yourself, but you can't find yourself. Those who can find themselves (a fixed identity) have only latched on to an illusion for a sense of security, and you don't need that, so you're unable to do it.

You're not like us. You're not fooling anyone. You might as well just be what you are. You can't be anything else.

RB said...

I'm pretty clueless about pantheism and metaphysics. The article left one question for me in other concerns

I wondered if Zhawk is searching for some deeper meaning of his (or generally mandkind) life and situation. Do you feel the need for it all to have some meaning ? I know I have periods of that. I call mine the "depression periods I never know when they set in, just that they will" :)

Zhawq said...

Anon March 11. -15. - 5:00 PM:

"A synonym for covet is envy."

No it isn't. It's a word in it's own right and simply means you want something in a one-eyed manner that leaves little room for other things. It is more akin to lust but doesn't have to be sexual.

Envy has more to do with not wanting others to have something than with wanting to have something for yourself, or it's at the very least an even.

In coveting the aspect of somebody else wanting or needing something doesn't even enter the equation.

"So what drives you, Zhawq? You say it is 'cleaner' than envy, so what is it? Do you even know?"

I have answered this before, but I have no problem with doing so again: I seek Transcendence. I want to understand everything and then transcend that too. That is always what drives me and always will be.

If you say that it is like wanting to be or become God, you would not be lying. But that is not my goal and it never has been.

Zhawq said...

Anon March 12. -15 - 12:18 AM:

"I have a lot of respect for you Zhawq, as you know. I must say that this particular article is so rough it does not sound like you at all- it seems to be lacking clarity and structure not fitting of your writing."

If you will point out one or some of the parts that are unclear, I will try to explain what it means.

"The only bit of clarity I found in the entire piece was the point that anyone with a well developed belief in their mind will have an individuality about it.

Something is awry here."


On a second read-through I can certainly see why you feel that way. I didn't proof read it, and right now I wish I hadn't written it at all.

I'll probably take the article down in a couple of weeks. There are some of the past articles I plan to do the same to, and perhaps it's time I get started. '^L^,

Zhawq said...

Anon March 12, -15. - 8:15 PM,
part 1:

"You "let it all go" to be true to yourself...but you found out it didn't get you what you wanted, so you wouldn't do it again. Oh, but wait! you did it to be true to yourself! OR, umm, did you do it to get some result out of other people? I'm sorta confused. Are you?"

I know exactly what I meant to say and it is this: I tried letting go of manipulation etc. - things everybody engage in, if you don't realize - but it backfired and so I wouldn't do it again. I can still be true to myself, just not so much to others, which is sad.

"Of course psychopaths have their very own custom-made religions. What else would they have, a religion designed for the little people?"

Yes, of course for little people too. Everybody are needed in the larger scheme of things, and if I were to create a religion nobody would be left out and everybody would be respected for the virtues they had. Not like today where virtues are altogether left out of the picture if someone makes a mistake that a powerful person doesn't like him for. Such a man's life can get ruined for doing something the powerful man does on a daily basis without even thinking about it. - And make no mistake, though I do care for everybody I'm still no socialist!

"No way, they need a better religion, one worthy of their grandiose selves, worthy of their Chosen status by the "larger demons.""

You're rambling, mister.

"I'm not christian nor am I any religion. I lack whatever gene is involved in that."

You'd be surprised at how closely related hatred towards a minority such as f.ex. psychopaths is to religious fanaticism. I'll refer you to someone who's running a virtual witch hunt on psychopaths, if you need proof that what I say is a fact.

"But I also lack the gene involved in being "Chosen" and having my very own brand of religion. Only psychopaths have that gene."

Really, I'm tempted to dare you to prove to me that only psychopaths have a propensity for being Chosen within or without a religion - and never mind you nonsensical use of the word 'gene'.

"Do you realize, Zhawq, that you contradict yourself in every sentence of every post on this website? I don't think you see it."

Every sentence, no less? Had you said something like "Do you realize you contradict yourself often" or "...regularly", I might've agreed to an extent, for the way I think is less one-eyed than your typical erhm...dogmatic thinking such as, erhm...Christianity or any established large scale monoteist religion.

"If you want to banter against the Unholy One, you better come prepared, boy!" lol

"Even if you're trying to put one over on us, you don't see that you can't put one over on us."

Well I would need to know which one you're speaking of, for I honestly don't know what you mean, unless you're simply saying I'm trying to fool everybody. In that case I'd say there are simpler ways of doing that than to go online and declare yourself a psychopath, wouldn't you? Arh, you probably wouldn't.

"You lack consistency."

This is most definitely true, and I honestly wish it was not. But I am working at it (you can believe me or not).

"Your malleable identity has no grounding firm enough to sustain your farce even through one paragraph."

Woah, that's saying not so little. It makes me wonder what you could come up with were you in my shoes. But ah, that's just it, isn't it? You're NOT in my shoes, so here everything goes.

Zhawq said...

Anon March 12, -15. - 8:15 PM,
part 2:

"I think you're trying to understand yourself, and that's why you write."

No, you don't think I'm trying to understand myself and that's why I write. I've told you I'm trying to understand myself (and others), and that is why I write! I make no secret of it, never have.

"You're looking for yourself, but you can't find yourself."

Arhh, and now you were doing so good. I'm not looking for myself, I'm looking into myself, and others.

"Those who can find themselves (a fixed identity) have only latched on to an illusion for a sense of security, and you don't need that, so you're unable to do it."

You first sentence with substance. Thank you, buddy.

Now, if I don't need a sense of security, why would I look for it?

You know, I used to think everybody were like me and I couldn't for my life understand why people would look for that sense of security, and I'd ask them about it, over and over, as a kid. But I never got an answer. I didn't realize that they didn't know about it anymore than I did, so I thought they just wouldn't tell me, and that made me angry.

Now, more than 40 years later I've found out about all this on my own, without help - at least not help given willingly, I've had to cheat and manipulate my way to understand this tiny bit about what drives normal people.

But guess what? That is exactly what has led me to no longer feel any hatred, because now I understand, now I know why they do what they do and that it isn't an illusion to them, to them it is real. You may feel it's an illusion because you have a high IQ, but most people do not see it that way, to them it's hard truth and bitter reality. And that exactly is why one shouldn't go so hard on them, but it is also why there should be more education - for the sake of normal people just as much as for the sake of psychopaths. Because if you can bring a young psychopaths to understand little simple things like this, bit by bit, through good parenting and a well founded schooling, then you may just raise an Andy McNabb[*] instead of a serial killer.

"You're not like us. You're not fooling anyone. You might as well just be what you are. You can't be anything else."

You're absolutely right, and that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. But as right as you are, it is also true that if I did what you suggest anywhere but here, online, I wouldn't survive another year. I simply wouldn't be able to make a living for nobody would dare to do business with me. I'd at best live like a slum bum. And I'm not about to do that if I can help it. '^L^,

[*] - Andy McNabb wrote the book 'The Good Psychopath' together with Kevin Dutton, prof. in forensic psychology. McNabb is a psychopath and open about it, yet he has never been in prison and today he runs a successful business.

Anonymous said...

Seems the current "reality" brings out the worst in both sides. Any guesses on how this situation started?

Zhawq said...

Anon March 13. -15 - 11:02 AM:

"Seems the current "reality" brings out the worst in both sides."

You mean the general trends of the time brings the worst out in most people, whether they are of inherited so called aristocracy or simply "new rich", or if they're of "the people on the floor"?

If so, then yes, I think so, and I think there are very clear reasons for this being how it is.

"Any guesses on how this situation started?"

Again I'm not quite sure what you're referring to. It could be an extension of what you said above here, but it could also be that you're talking about something entirely different that I just haven't understood. So I'll ask you to clarify a little and tell me exactly what you are referring to so I can reply appropriately and not make dumb mistakes. '^L^,

Anonymous said...

"If you want to banter against the Unholy One, you better come prepared, boy!" lol

LOL. You got me with that one :-)

"I honestly don't know what you mean, unless you're simply saying I'm trying to fool everybody. In that case I'd say there are simpler ways of doing that than to go online and declare yourself a psychopath, wouldn't you?"

I don't think you're pretending to be a psychopath, not at all. I think you're pretending to be like us, the neurotypicals. But you can't, it'll never work. You don't realize the way you think is so different that you can't hide it. It's just like the way you see our thinking to be different from yours.

Don't take this post down, Zhawq, or any of them. We might give you a hard time sometimes, but that means you're getting to the good stuff.

Peace

Anonymous said...

"I think you're trying to understand yourself, and that's why you write."

I meant that exactly as written. I believe it's the truth.


"Arhh, and now you were doing so good. I'm not looking for myself, I'm looking into myself, and others."

Fair enough.

"You first sentence with substance. Thank you, buddy."

Once in a while, I know what's going on.

"That is exactly what has led me to no longer feel any hatred, because now I understand, now I know why they do what they do and that it isn't an illusion to them, to them it is real."

You got it. 'Normal' people have no idea what drives the, nor do they try to figure it out, because it's just...normal. I figured it out because a psychopath turned my life upside down. I suddenly questioned everything.

I no longer feel any hatred toward psychopaths, because now I understand, now I know why they do what they do and that it isn't an illusion to them, to them it is real.

Zhawq, who can ever say what's real? We all see reality through our own eyes, through the lens of our minds, which are filled with so many things that warp and bias our point of view.

"But as right as you are, it is also true that if I did what you suggest anywhere but here, online, I wouldn't survive another year."

I meant for you to be yourself here, online. But maybe you're doing that, and it just doesn't seem so outrageous or strange to me anymore.

Anonymous said...

Sorry I was vague. I mean how do you think that denying you guys existence started. Just a guess, of course. I don't see how pretending helps anyone, either. I'm glad you've made this site. Thanks!

RB said...

Guys guys !!

(Im so sorry)
Psychos, psychos !!

I came across this "empathy"/SQ test. It is pretty cool.

"Oh yes. I shall top it. I'll max easily".

But there were quite a few words and nuances I had trouble with. "Aghast" what da fuck is that ? It kept popping up constantly. Some others too.

"Fuck I'm being busted here ", I though worriedly. But I did complete the test

26 of 36. Phew.... :) I felt a relief.

I dare you to try it !

A bit off topic. Sry for that. It is interesting though. According to "theories", there should be plenty of 1/4*36 scores in this forum :)

Maybe not exactly autism-low will be the correct guess. But I did read that psychoes are supposively better at recognizing expressions of anger/hatred than happiness

http://kgajos.eecs.harvard.edu/mite/

RB said...

I had another go at the article. It is a deep one this. Quite metaphorically speaking.

Are you paralleling "demons/spirits" to Kevin Dutton's "equalizer tuning", I wonder.

One could consider "psychopath" label, similar to the pretuned "post rock (my fav these days)" setup for your loudspeakers.

You will find you own default setting within yourself. Nature/nurture/spirits/ghosts. Not so important. It isn't totally stuck, and for sure isn't for other to determine what soundmix they wanna hear coming out from you. And we can also tune up and down parts of default, by choice and preferences. Who knows. After some time, one might even discover that the total tuning may end up closer to "classical" than to "post rock".

Actually. Life is nothing more than a tuning process. Then again, it is what makes it interesting.

Tom Arrow said...

"Well I would need to know which one you're speaking of, for I honestly don't know what you mean, unless you're simply saying I'm trying to fool everybody. In that case I'd say there are simpler ways of doing that than to go online and declare yourself a psychopath, wouldn't you? Arh, you probably wouldn't."

Interesting. To say there are simpler ways isn't the same as saying it's not true. Though it is quite pointless to accuse someone of trickery without even seeing the trick. Just because I know somebody is tricking me doesn't mean I can resist it. I have read an interesting article about indoctrination where it says that resistance is almost a foolproof way to be tricked in the end. So it may be part of the strategy in the end. But what could possibly be your goal?

I find it fascinating though that people are so concerned with you, Zhawq, don't you too? As if you would care if they accept you. In almost every comment section, they want to seem smart by "looking through you" or "seeing you for what you are". Like parrots repeating some scene from a Hollywood movie, imagining an orchestra that gives their words meaning.

In your last article, I told you about my bad trip. This puts an interesting perspective on it. Do you think that I actually saw the devil or do you think that I just saw some average demon and got my Amygdala overstimulated?

I have been thinking a bit and have come to the conclusion that I have clang to words (as a replacement for real thoughts and understanding) my whole life to be spared the terror of actually being confronted with the fact that I understand nothing. That my rationality doesn't even scratch that which one may call reality and is rather a very limited tool to give sense to the most immediate observations.

This realization so deeply unsettled me that I contemplated searching for someone to guide me, to explain it all to me. That's when it came to me that I am all alone in this. Who could possibly know everything? And even then, the knowledge would consist merely of categorizations to put the perceptions into use. That's the kind of our thinking, to put things to use within our lives. But it doesn't explain or grasp reality - that's not something we are built to understand. How much does the knowledge about the behavior of atoms and subatomic particles explain about their reason and nature? It much frightens me to be confronted with the inexplicable and to see that my kind of thinking can not even ask the right kind of question, much less understand the answer. I can only perceive the perspective that is offered to me; I can't even communicate it, because there are no words for things that have no relevance in physical reality.

So everyone who claims to have the answers can only be a liar, preying on my wish to forget about what I've learned and using the same kind of experiences I have made to connect with me.

I don't think I can forget anymore, unless something destroys my brain.

Tom Arrow said...

But since I was speculating what could be the goal of your writing this article, I can use a subjective method to give a possibility: How does reading it affect me?
It affects me in speaking to my rational mind, seeing another very enlighted being that I consider to be honest (due to the fact of your exposing as psychopath). It naturally opens up my mind to see the observations of a person who is not limited by emotions as I am. It gives me the illusion to be able to see the world from your perspective, Zhawq. But it is only the perspective you allow me to see. If I decide to read on, to engage in discussion, who knows what kind of conclusions I will make and where they will take me. But then, why should I care. I don't think you are a devil anymore. There is only pain I can feel and pain gets a lot of stigma. Why refuse pain when it is an emotion just like love?

On that note, you remarked that you never hold on to emotions like most people do. Have you considered that they might do it due to language? People have given names to emotions, but these names often have another connotation. For example, aggression is associated with negative judgment, thus with shame. So when somebody gets aggressive, they feel shame for that emotion as well - two conflicting emotions in fact. But they don't see them as separate emotions, because they rely on language. Thus they associate this inner conflict with one single word: aggression. Of course they want to avoid it and hold on to an unsolved conflict.

I came to this conclusion when I started to observe and locate emotions in my body. I don't even use names for them anymore, I just feel tensions in various places. When I walk somewhere with a purpose, it's in my lower spine. When I try to stare somebody down, it's in the back of my head. When I feel like engaging in conflict, I feel it in the front of my chest. When I want to impress, I feel it in my thighs. When people use language to judge me, I feel it in my stomach. The more I observe it, the less I care. It's fascinating that language has made me blind to such depths during all my life. In the end, what language does is to create a prison for emotions. Love is deemed desirable, aggression is deemed undesirable. So you start being ashamed of aggression and guilty for not feeling love. And you chase the carrot. Love yourself, love yourself! Be happy! Why the fuck do I need to feel happy? It's just one color of the rainbow, why should I obsess over it?

How do you perceive emotions?

Anonymous said...

Zhawq, I just saw your note in the sidebar. Why are you in so much pain? Are you getting help?

RB said...

@Tom

I may be off track. I do consider the chance of you just feeling to much. But more as in introverted feeling. Fi in MBTI-terms. Egocentrism."Goal oriented".

When I go out, have a walk or whatever, I try not to feel anything at all. That isn't always easy, but one tries.
A guy stops me. Maybe he is a robber, maybe he needs a dime, maybe he wanna know what day it is. I don't know. I just wait and see what comes. That would be extroverted feeling Fe. "open minded", but of course mixed with "intuition". If I see someone approaching with a gun in his hand, yeah, I wouldn't just wait.

Being open for input, it does make it possible to be the recipient of good vibes from the outside. Being influenced positively, as in "people can be pretty nice. life is pretty good now and then"

Drawback is that it can also make negative vibes more frustrating. It can make one more "vurnerable"
With the good comes the bad.

Closing myself in, is to me, a zombie life. I also have a lot of baggage as in negative feelings. Sometimes one does need a break from oneself, thoughts and internal turmoil


As for Zhawk getting better. Of course, I think, he cares what his readers may think. Otherwise he wouldn't kept on writing the blog. At least not more than he would have been forced to write. Wishing him getting better, is also another way of saying "keep up your work mate. We appreciate it"

Anonymous said...

Separate point - can you cover CYCLES in your writings. I have heard others are the same as myself, I tend to cycle people and projects. Taking things along for a while then dropping it of cold. Then months/ years latter picking back up as though I had never left off.

I wonder if its to do with our Neanderthal hunter ancestry. Could it have been that we moved from area to area and hence cycled groups of people accordingly - perhaps having worked one hunting area and then moved on?

Interested on your thoughts on Psychopaths & CYCLES..

saltypoems said...

We spoke before
"I seek Transcendence. I want to understand everything and then transcend that too."

Transcendence is more about Knowing, rather than understanding. There is a qualitative difference between the two.

I respect that you are trying at least, unlike many who accept Life at face value (it's not) and keep walking and breathing the lie.

Any kind of unprocessed belief (religion, relationships, rules, politics, you name it) is the source of torture for human folks.

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

"But since I was speculating what could be the goal of your writing this article, I can use a subjective method to give a possibility: How does reading it affect me?"......"I don't think you are a devil anymore."

Ding ding ding ding ding!

You answered your own question, Tom Arrow.

Zhawq said...

Anon, March 15.-15. 2:53 PM,

you wrote:
"Zhawq, I just saw your note in the sidebar. Why are you in so much pain? Are you getting help?"

No, I'm not getting any help, that's why I'm in so much pain. It's kind of the state that the state prefers to keep me in because they hope by this way to prove they're right about psychopaths being only for the bad, that there's nothing good in us and that we can't lift some very heavy work for the sake of the better of all people (and not only psychopaths).

They know it's true, that it can be done, they too have learned of the more resent findings that proves psychopaths can not only be good, but they already possess pro-social positions i society and does a hell of a lot to help especially those who would otherwise be completely left to their own devices - become antisocial murderous misfits. - They know this, but it toples everything they've build their popularity on so far, the "us against them" policies, and that's why - especially in areas where new things and change comes slowly and is ill received - everybody who fights or works for the introduction of these new findings and for new ways of understanding what used to be a one sided problem called "Them, the psychopaths, and us, how we protect ourselves against them by implementing the isolation tactic (isolate them and don't allow them the possibility to speak so that others can hear what they have to say).

This was a long response, but in it lies the answer to your question.

Thank you for caring. It means a lot in a time like this where it can sometimes be very difficult to keep up the necessary stamina and hope.

'^L^,

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry you can't get the help you need. There is no excuse for leaving someone in pain. I believe health care is a basic human right, no matter what someone's diagnosis, no matter if they are incarcerated, or unable to pay, or because of their nationality (maybe not a citizen of where they're living). I have been left in pain before and it is the most inhuman thing, to know that relief is available but for whatever reason, it is not made available to you.

Don't let this discourage you from the path you're on, Zhawq. I know how pain can color your world, especially when there is help out there but you can't get it. What I'm saying is, don't generalize and believe that the whole world sucks, so why bother.

Easier said than done, but you're strong and you can do what you put your intention on.

I know that pain, when severe, takes over the focus of your attention. Some tips: If it's bone or joint pain, anti-inflammatory drugs (ibuprofen or naproxen, or aspirin)can work quite well. Be sure to protect your stomach and take them with food. For some reason, ibuprofen or naproxen combined with acetaminophen works particularly well, but avoid alcohol to protect your liver.

I hope you will get the help you need very soon.

Tom Arrow said...

RB,

"I may be off track. I do consider the chance of you just feeling to much. But more as in introverted feeling. Fi in MBTI-terms. Egocentrism."Goal oriented". A guy stops me. Maybe he is a robber, maybe he needs a dime, maybe he wanna know what day it is. I don't know. I just wait and see what comes. That would be extroverted feeling Fe. "open minded", but of course mixed with "intuition". If I see someone approaching with a gun in his hand, yeah, I wouldn't just wait."

Interesting. How does it relate to being goal-oriented?

In MBTI-tests, I do get a strong preference of thinking over feeling - 62%. Im right in the middle between ISTP and INTP. But it may vary when done on different days, haven't tried. Maybe my usual thinking preference is why I am thus interested in feelings.

I know what you say about openness, it's quite a nice thing. I am generally rather introverted, but I usually have positive experiences when meeting others. I value independence of thought a lot, therefore i try to keep a certain distance to people. It is intuitive, but may be wrong. Sometimes resisting a thought just opens your subconscious wide up for it.

Anonymous said...

so, you're ill and not getting any treatment? What's exactly the problem? [I was in health school for 2 y and half befor I changed majors, so I may have some advice]

Anonymous said...

Pk, I just saw you've been to the hospital...

RB said...

Interesting. How does it relate to being goal-oriented?

Terrible. I've lost my long term motivation, since I stopped being ambitious and had that need to feel like I was something special, someone special. On the other hands, I do appreciate life a lot more as it is. And in particular, I do appreciate a lot more different types of mankind. Getting to know someone has now less pragmatic value, and more "feelgood" and learning about life motive.

I am aiming and working on landing somewhere in between my past and current stand. Thesis <-> Anti-thesis and then some synthesis. A little long term planning, while remembering to enjoy the moment too. (Dialectic of Hegel)


In MBTI-tests, I do get a strong preference of thinking over feeling - 62%. Im right in the middle between ISTP and INTP. But it may vary when done on different days, haven't tried. Maybe my usual thinking preference is why I am thus interested in feelings.

The MBTI split between Introverted Feeling Fi and Extraverted Feeling Fe, isn't about being introverted Vs extraverted. It is more about being emotionally focused within yourself (Fi) in contrast to your sorroundings/outside (Fe). They are both part of F as in F(Fi,Fe)

I tend to only be Fi, when I am totally alone, and listening to music. Apart from those moments (or rather schizoid periods, since they can go for weeks), I am pretty high on Fe. The Fe is what can make me happy by noticing a person I am with being happy. And the opposite too (You do become a bit more BPD, but that is controllable to a non-disordered degree. BPD is to me in a big way a conflict between Fi and Fe. The inner desire (Fi) Vs the sensation one gets from the outside (Fe). An emotional "gap", instead of cogntitive gap (the narc), as in False vs Real self)


I know what you say about openness, it's quite a nice thing.

I guess openess can be claimed to be related to Fe. Sometimes is suck though. But that's life.
Personally I think I am happier when I let my Fe dominate me, but more ambitious (and vindictive) if I let my Fi take the overhand.

The MBTI isn't any beall-endall. But it is a usefool tool to put words on many of the sensations and experiences one has gone through in life.

Zhawk. Good luck on that fight against the medical welfare of your state. If your being ignored due to your prior actions and diagnosis, I guess they don't practise what they preach about equality and fairness. So who then would be real psychopath, again..

RB said...

@Tom

It didn't work too well for me, focusing less on Fi as the internal drive for actions, and more on Fe. Well, socially speaking, I would say it worked a lot better, but for job progression and work manipulation, I sort of lost the meaning and point of it all.

But that was just me. Being very high on Fe, can make you an excellent "psychopath" as long as the internal drive and motivation is there, for acting in a "psychopathic" way. I'd rather call it "business-like" way- It is a more correct describing term, then calling it psychopathy. Especially for an IXTP. "It's just business", as T. Sheridan would have argued :)

I will analyze what need to be done, logically. Then I would use my Fe, when executing the plan. Unfortunately I do feel guilty too easily and too fast in that process, to become a typical successful CEO-type. I have the tools, just also that annoying feeling of guilt, when scamming and lying. "The victory" just doesn't taste well at all.

I wish I could fool myself as easily as I, in theory, can fool others.
(My mother is goddess in that. It is very interesting to observe how she actually believes her own lies and excuses. I suspect that she is completely dissociating....
If it was all down to genes, I would probably been a multi-millionaire today, without breaking the law. Manipulation isn't illegal. Just business )

Tom Arrow said...

RB,

I'm not sure I get the relevance of your writings in response to my comment. I am in the thinking corner:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/CognitiveFunctions.png/640px-CognitiveFunctions.png

But it's still interesting and the analogy to narcissism (which I ascribe to myself) is very plausible.

Yeah, guilt is a beast. Enervating. For me, the problem lies within some mechanism in my head that puts "other people" in one category. Therefore, when I hurt one person, I do accept that this person will be annoyed. But that categorization makes the connection in my head that I generally annoy people which is, of course, a dangerous thing to do.

I had a phase in my life where I was very business-like. It wasn't easy, but I was a cold motherfucker for about 6 months. Didn't greet anybody, never smiled. That may not be at all what you meant - manipulating is quite different from being a cold ass.
But I can relate to the missing sweetness of victory.

My point is: I may have been more able to uphold it, had I had some balance in the form of nice social contacts to prove to myself that I am still able to have that kind of gratification.

But I was too focused on upholding that self-image, probably due to my narcissism. Had I rather used it pragmatically, it may have worked. But that is a contradiction in itself since I alienated most of my business contacts with that attitude.

Your argument about genes doesn't seem quite logical. Your genes define the amount of guilt you feel, don't they?

Drop me a message through the contact form on my website (manwithoutfather.com) if you want. I would like to continue the dialogue, but don't feel like using Zhawqs comments for it.

Allison Hunt said...

Please allow me to introduce myself... I, too, am a psychopath. So, too, were all my siblings, my father, my only child and possibly my mother. I have many insights, which I only recently acquired. I would like to share them.

It's not nothing that the Jews call themselves "the chosen". I believe this is the most glaring example of a religion cultivating psychopathy. In fact, Judaism is defined by psychopathic beliefs and practices. 'Nuff said on that subject.

Most of my recent "revelations' have come from reviewing current research. It reinforces stuff I knew all along but couldn't prove. There is only one idea about psychopathy which seems to be original. That is.... l don't think you can sort psychopaths into LFP and HFP. I believe you can sort than on intent... and only on intent. Some psychopaths are intent in following an evil nature. They are bad people and they know they are bad people. Other psychopaths put genuine effort in being good, decent people. Don't get me wrong, they are still psychopaths and they still do some unacceptable things. They really do have good intentions, they simply don't have full control of themselves. For example, I choose to practice empathy, something any psychopath can choose to do, according to recent research. However, after decades of practice, l am not always successful. My spouse was befuddled that l was unable to connect emotionally over the grief he had for his recently deceased mother. I simply couldn't do it I'm still a good person, I just failed to connect. A "good psychopath" is an odd creature and often does "dickish" things. The best public example of a good psychopath is James Fallon PhD. See his YouTube videos. In my family, I count (4) who are/were psychopaths who made an effort to be good people (including myself, from about the age of 17). I count (2) psychopaths who are not good people, including an amoral son and a compulsive lying brother who believes he will soon be the God of his own planet (because that's what the Mormons told him).

Destiel said...

10,oooo words about supernatural and not ONE remark about those hot bods?!? say you psychos really are weird!


Anonymous said...

Zhawq, sorry to hear you are in hospital again. Wishes for a full recovery. Hope to see you back here very soon.

Zhawq said...

Anon March 23, 7:18 PM,

thank for your kind and supportive words.

It's true that I'm strong, I've always known it, and if it wasn't the case I wouldn't be here now, I wouldn't be alive now.

I don't think the whole world sucks. I have been poor in the US, but I received medical help and a positive attitude that exceeds what I meet here by a hundred - no, by several hundred times. There's nothing positive here, really.

You know, it is nice to receive support from my Readers, I would be lying if I said otherwise. Yet, telling about your weaknesses is so much against my nature, and I've had bad results from doing it in the past.

So when I do it here and find responses like the ones RB (in the following article) has given me, I wonder if it's worth it. But of course you're right, it is worth it, and for the time being it is all I have, so I'm lucky there are people like you and many other of my Readers who also support me - here, in the comments section, or by email.

Many psychopaths tend to form some kind of bond with one person only. We hear it when we read about serial killers who were married for 20 or 40 years. I've always known I'm such a person - not a serial killer, but one who "bonds" with one other individual. It isn't bonding in the same way that normal people bond, but it is bonding even so, and one thing nobody can take away from me is loyalty once I've pledged it to somebody.

But that was a digression.

Thank you again for letting me know I'm not completely alone even though it feels that way. - No, I'm not lonely, but I am alone. '^L^,

Zhawq said...

Tom Arrow,

the MBTI tests do indeed tend to vary when taken with some time in between. Days may not be enough, but a year or two should be.

Zhawq said...

Anon March 25, 6:38 AM

"so, you're ill and not getting any treatment? What's exactly the problem? [I was in health school for 2 y and half before I changed majors, so I may have some advice]"

Well first they denied me treatment for an infection in my knee for a year, and when I fell unconscious they removed my knee but refused to give me a knee implant. That means one of my legs is about 2 1/2 or 3 inches shorter than the other, and stiff like a tree, I can't bent it, I can't sit down normally, I can't walk normally, I can't run, I can't exercise anymore (had to stop due to pain in the back after the first two years after the surgery), I have to sit up and sleep because the surgery was so poorly done that a vein or nerve get's blood supply cut off so the leg first falls asleep then becomes numb and would die if I didn't change position and shake life back into it.

There are only two possibilities to help the situation, and I have done research on them both. One is to give me a knee implant, but that will over time become impossible. The other is to amputate and give me a prosthesis so I can walk normally. The athlete from South Africa who killed his wife and got away with it, anyone? He can run and his health is like mine used to be.

If you have ideas as to how I can get either of these two things done without having money to pay for the procedure, I am most definitely all ears! You would have my eternal gratitute and loyalty, that much is certain! '^L^,

Zhawq said...

RB:

"Zhawk. Good luck on that fight against the medical welfare of your state. If your being ignored due to your prior actions and diagnosis, I guess they don't practise what they preach about equality and fairness. So who then would be real psychopath, again.."

This is how it is with most everything around here. They lie to the people and the people take it because "we can't do anything about it". They've been groomed to be law abiding to the point that they don't cross a street if the light isn't green.

They've been stripped of most human rights so the state is all they have. Hence they have to believe fanatically in the state or they would have absolutely nothing but their own sad defeated faces when they look in the mirror.

And this is a human thing. A person can only live with so much humiliation - unless they're a psychopath, and you can see what it's doing to me.

The mental down trodding wasn't enough to put me down, so they take to more physical methods. Of course this is only speculation, I have no proof of any of it, and that is what makes it so hard to explain to others who have never lived here what it's like.

Zhawq said...

Allison Hunt,

welcome to my website.

As for Judaism, in my view it's the most intelligent religion we have, so if this is psychopathic practice and thinking, then I'm the very incarnation of psychopathic practice and thinking - practice only to a degree, though. ;)

"l don't think you can sort psychopaths into LFP and HFP"

And I think you're right. It's an over simplification and a good example of people's desperation after having easy answers they can attach their beliefs to and act in accordance with.

What you say following this is what I have been trying to say for some time now. Except, perhaps, that I do not believe we can chose to feel empathy if we don't have the ability. Some psychopaths have the ability, but it is limited. I am one of them, and I use this ability all the time.

I always feel befuddled when people expect you to feel what they feel when they grieve over the loss of a family member. How on earth would I be able to do that? But what I can and do do is show sympathy, and I'm fairly good at it too.

I like the way you describe doing 'dickish' things.

BTW, when I watched the first video of James Fallon I was in the seventh heaven, because here was a learned person, a professor, who suddenly had PROOF that what I've always said is true! (Note to self: I still need to write him that letter, by the way.)

I wish you the best of luck. And don't forget Kevin Dutton, he (with the help of his psychopath buddy Andy McNabb) has done a good job too to get it out there that we - the good psychopaths - exist.

'^L^,

Zhawq said...

Destiel,

you wrote:
"10,oooo words about supernatural and not ONE remark about those hot bods?!? say you psychos really are weird!"

Well I'd love to write about hot bods if only I knew what they are. - Then again, I may not want to write about them if I think they're a hogwash figment of some guru's imagination. But I have no reason to think that at this point. If you will indulge me/us and tell what they are, I promise to take a look at it. '^L^,

Zhawq said...

Anon April, 9:17 AM:

"Zhawq, sorry to hear you are in hospital again. Wishes for a full recovery. Hope to see you back here very soon."

Thank you so much. A somewhat recovery, enough for me to move around would make all the difference to me. But I really appreciate you taking the time to write those words.

Thank you once again. '^L^,

Anonymous said...

1.
So, what I wanted to say, in response to this entry about angels and devils and the like, is that it is really a sort of morality play, to my eyes.
I've been reading your blog for a while, but this is my first foray into commenting on it. Now THERE'S a word you rarely hear these days! When you do hear it, it's always in the negative, in relation to what is missing, not what is there, or what is there to be examined.

Now, I have to say that I'm coming from a rather unique perspective myself, in regards to religion, and psychopathy, and morality, and psychology, and the world. Basically it's not like I'm some sort of religious nut, or anything like that, but I know a lot about religion and philosophy. Am I a member of the clergy? No. Do I teach at a University? No. Just a student of life, I guess, and an avid reader. I also try to reserve judgement of others to what they have shown me, whether directly or indirectly, or what I can prove about them to myself.

I guess I gave such a large preface because we're talking about one of the big ones, here, RELIGION, and we're not supposed to talk about it, right? At least, we're not supposed to talk about it in polite company. It's also not like religion is my main bag, baby, if you know what I mean. It's also true for the most part that I have seen quite a bit in my life, and therefore I am less likely to discount things or people or ideas out of hand, and as I've been no angel myself, I can wrap my mind around a good many things that might freak other people out or get them to have an immediate negative reaction and a total shut down to an idea or person. I don't consider myself a fool, although, who does? A fool doesn't know they are that first card in the deck, that's why they are the zero card, right?

I guess it doesn't matter. I could get on here and say that I am a purple anteater who enjoys raisins for dinner and speaks only Swahili at home. Doesn't mean it's really what I am or anything. After all, this is the internet we're on. Lots of whacked out folks around these parts. A person has to be careful out here.

So having said all that, it really is striking, these dichotomies that you are presenting, sometimes, yes, over and over, in various ways, throughout the blog. It is sort of a surprise that it took this long to come to religion, because it is so patently obvious that this is perfect religious material from a number of angles. I mean, come on! Redemption.

Religious folks should be foaming at the mouth over you. What we have here, is a sort of devil, and he has no need to be good at all, at least, there is no force compelling him to be good outside of his own self. In fact, it would be to his benefit, and it would not harm him as it might harm others who were intrinsically "good", to be "bad", or even evil. This is the type of power that would be enviable, were it not so frightening out of context. The power to do as you would, with no guilt, and no concern. No nagging morality that came preinstalled on a lot of the other models of humans.
Yet, he turns it down! For what? It's a conscious choice, and it's something that he didn't have to do. How do I know for sure he didn't have to do it? Well, I can assume, because if he is a psychopath, why bother? Seriously. Think about it. There is nothing stopping him from using his powers for evil intent, or what seems like it to other people. But let's say it is evil he could be doing, and having a damned good time doing it. Living comfortably, not hindered by conscience and all of that uncomfortable stuff that keeps the average joe from becoming the average devil.

Anonymous said...


2. this is a continuation of the first comment I submitted...

sorry for the length

Here, this devil looks into it, sees what he will be giving up, at great cost to him, and without any prompting that I can see that would really matter to a psychopath, and he gives it up. Voluntarily. And, to add to that, he is doing it because he sees some sort of higher purpose in his life, and that purpose just happens to be (at least as it is framed here) seeing that our society use the psychopaths among us to our greatest advantage. He is there, saying he is a devil, and will always be such, and can actually not be anything but, by design, a devil, and yet...he has this information that can "save" others like him, and others around the others like him.
His choice. His call. Doesn't have to do this, obviously. At least, it's obvious to me. But he's a study, now, in good over evil. A choice made, or many choices, and here we come to a veritable cornucopia of human themes, all being writ large in the story of a devil who chooses redemption.

"Redemption songs. Songs of freedom."

So, it's easier to get into heaven as a so called angel, just for argument sake. Or as a good human. But then again, it's so easy for good humans to get into heaven, who cares? That's no story! That's no triumph of the will! That's no, or at least it's very little, redemption there.

The angel that saves this devil has done a massive work, and it would seem that somehow this devil is his own angel.

Yet, there is such injustice in the world that after all of this, he is NOT being congratulated and praised and such. He's suffering even more than he would have if he had simply returned to the dark side.

Of course, I've been dramatic here and overly simplistic and it's all only my opinion of the thing. But I thought a different commenter was a bit harsh about the subject, and perhaps it was because it was religious and about transcending, and about redemption.
The thing is, I'd rather know that it is possible, even if it is not likely, that the so called devils amongst us are capable of redemption. I know that it is not going to be the case for a lot of them, as it is not the case for so called normal people to find redemption. This is certainly not your average story for a psychopath. But maybe that's not true. Maybe there are lots of stories like this, just missing labels.

The thing is, this doesn't make me have rose colored glasses. I will still tread carefully with known dangers I may find. But it is definitely good to know that if a psychopath wants to become a good person, they can do it. It's also helpful to know that there are things the people in their lives can do, especially early on in a child's life, to prevent an anti social outcome even with a brain that reads psychopathic.

I think the spiritual struggle described is instructive for anyone. Of course, you have to have an open mind.











Anonymous said...

Oh, and just for the record, I believe the person talking about the "hot bods" may have been referring to the photo in the comment left by the female psychopath with the extended family members who were also psychopathic.
That's my assumption, based on the photo and the remark. "Hot bod" is idiomatic for a great body, although I haven't heard it used that way for some time. Perhaps I missed the mark with this one, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

*I'm the religious nut. lol Not really, but that's what I was just commenting about.