Saturday, September 6, 2014

Some Facts & Untruths About The Quest For Power.


A new visitor to left a comment during my absense, and I found his post very interesting for a couple of reasons, but most of all because he touches on something very central not only in human nature, our interactions on every level ranging from the highest, powerful and withdrawn position over the most personal between two individuals, and everything in between: Power and control. And I'd like to share what I have to say about the subject with my Readers but also because I am interested in seeing if my words may have some influence on this guy's own views.

Let me say right away that he's obvious intelligent, and he also happens to share some of my own chosen approaches to life as well as a drive towards learning more, getting to a greater level of understanding, understanding of oneself, one's own place in the world and how to make the best you can of it and of yourself.

But let me get on with it. Here's Nate's comment which he left under the article Am I A Psychopath - Part 2 

Nate Reynolds:

"smarts, looks, power and control, wealth, and all the other luxuries you desire. Now imagine all these took on a human form."

Interesting assertion. But it makes some assumptions that may not be applicable. The only thing of interest to me on this list is smarts, specifically knowledge. I have no interest in power or control, wealth, or any luxuries other than those which cannot be taken away from me. I place the highest value on science, mathematics, logic and reason, and philosophy. I do not place high value on material things, I don't have much use for them. But knowledge, this cannot be taken from me, once I have learned it, it is mine. About seeing it in human form, by spreading what I know around. Teaching people about about math, science, and philosophy, and challenging them to think about the world around them, I do create what I want in human form. I create it in every person I encounter who will listen

In fact knowledge is the reason I'm here. I am not a psychopath. But reading what others have to say about their experiences and lives aids in my quest for knowledge, it helps me understand people, the world around me, and my place in this universe. Understanding logic and reason, in addition to a vast array of knowledge helps me seek out the truth. It is my vaccine to others' bullshit.

Here is my response:...

You explain that you not only do not actively seek control or power, wealth, and so on, you're not even interested in them. I think you were being honest when you wrote this, but I nevertheless also think it isn't true, and I'll explain why.

You wrote that most people are interested in control and power and seek to obtain it. But all human beings with a reasonably sane mind have an interest in control and power. They have to be, because control and power some of the most central and important concepts and related to everything to do with social aspects and the structure of human society and thereby also to the very survival of our species. And that's because we survive by cooperating and keeping a strong consensus.

However not all people are interested in being powerful and in control of others. Quite the contrary, in fact: by far the most people do not want to be in positions of power and control (for various reasons), the average person prefer to be lead and to be like "everybody else"...and just as well, we might say, for can you imagine how the world of mankind would look if everybody were equally interested in getting and maintaining positions of power and exerting control over those around them...who would be equally eager to do the very same thing.

Most of us have met someone who refused to listen to reason, not because you couldn't express the message in a simple and easily understandable manner, but because they just wouldn't allow others to influence their opinions, knowledge, beliefs, etc.

Yet, you aren't one of the many people who prefer to be lead, Nate. You should soon see why that is...

If you truly believe you have absolutely no interest in power or control, you must be unknowingly lying to yourself. Almost everything you wrote in the comment I have quoted above shows that you are a power- and control-person, and that's without a doubt.

Consider this: Do you propose to think that teaching other people things you find valuable is not a form of control, a very efficient one at that, and one that has been used since education came into fashion. Every time you challenge someone to open up and allow you to add more depth and new perspective to their thinking, you exercise control as well as power over them. You can say it's for their best, but don't forget that you enjoy helping others and see the result when you succeed. You control what kind of intellectual growth they'll receive if you convince them to open up, you can't avoid doing so. 

You value knowledge. Yes, what sane person wouldn't? But please don't tell me you've never heard the saying "Knowledge is power", it's just too unlikely to be the case. ;)
I can also tell you have a substantiable amount of knowledge and I wouldn't be surprised if you can enter a university and compete with the best in philosophical prowess, depth of understanding and general knowledge. - That is power. - Power is not bad or evil, only what you do with, how you use it, can be good, better, bad, or worse.

As you put it yourself: you create what you want in human form.

Bravo,  you've chosen the ultimate form of power available to human beings. - Now, don't tell anybody this, but, I do the exact same thing! And you know what? I always try to do what I think is good, healthy, and beneficial, - unless it's a  person I have a specific reason to destroy.

(Yep, believe it or not, psychopaths can be interested in and do things that society considers 'good', for we too are individuals and can be very different in between.)

You're also intelligent, so you know that it isn't possible to pass on your knowledge to just anyone, simply because most people cannot process large amounts of complex knowledge. - Conclusion? Your knowledge is a source of power to you!

Each time you decide to challenge someone you have exercised the power you hold by being more knowledgeable and more intelligent than that person. The same is the case with each of the many people you chose not to challenge. When you pass someone by you've used your the power to not give that person a challenge - I'm sure your reasons are benign, but if we have to be absolutely honest there's no way we can know what every single individual we pass by is capable of achieving, and that means we'll make mistakes; some people will not reap the benefits of what you can teach them simply because you chose not to - for whichever reasons that impacts your daily life.

The last passage in your comment pretty much mirrors my own quest in life. There's only one difference: I don't have illusions about one absolute truth that is universal and the same for all. I've seen to many examples of how things can be done differently people in between and be beneficial to each party. It's only when one decides that their truth is more true than their neighbors the blessings begin to disappear and curses take their place. - I'm aware that you may disagree, few people see things this way. But hey, we can't all agree about everything, and I'm not surprised to see that we  have quite a few fundamental things in common even though you're not a psychopath and I am. After all, the wish and drive to learn and understand, and even to create something that impacts society in a positive way(*) are very human and consistently a large part of intellectually and philosophically inclined people.


(*) - It's a very common mistake to believe psychopaths only enjoy and want to hurt others, to destroy and create chaos. Having no actual integrated moral compass nor emotional sense of remorse and love, we can just as little develop any deep seated dislike towards doing things that happens to be labeled 'good' by the mainstream. We simply do not care what others feel and think about our actions. I happen to take just as great pleasure in making people happy as I do breaking them psychologically, or hurting them physically. It all depends on the situation. And there's always a very clear reason for what I do (though much of the time only I know about it unless I choose to explain it). The very idea that I should be lurking around corners in hope of finding someone I can harm for no reason is simply absurd. And there are many psychopaths who are like this.


GM said...

I liken life to a game of chess. Japanese chess, shogi, to be more exact.

As the loss of the king means the end of the game, this naturally translates to my king being my own life.

Everything else, from material possessions to personality straits to abstract beliefs and concepts are all various pieces on the board. Including people.

The difference between shogi and more common forms of chess lies in that when pieces are captured in shogi, they become your own. As such my quest for power becomes the collection of as many pieces as possible, through the means of my existing pieces.

Translating this to the topic at hand, I abstract all things to a rough value, with more important things (such as intelligence and knowledge) being more valuable pieces like rooks, while material objects may be assigned the rank of pawns.

What is of note here is that while rooks are by far more valuable than pawns (at least in their initial state), there is still the factor of the situation at hand. If the loss of a rook can mean the achievement of a significantly more valuable objective, then it is nevertheless worth the loss.

Now the issue here becomes, what is the enemy king, the endgame? This becomes specific to each person playing their own game, for what is of value to one, may not be so to others. Or as I see it, this is what the author refers to as the difference between different psychopaths.

Anonymous said...

I'm almost certain that nate is very offended right now, after 1upping him like that. ^_^ If he is to ever catch on, or even if he might visit this site again. But you can never be too sure.

I certainly learned something that has an.illusion to be important to me, since I'm not sure if it will ever help me down the road. I learned that psychopaths can find satisfaction in helping people. Quite interesting.

Also, I do enjoy that one phrase: "I don't have any illusions that there is one truth." I honestly thought that I was the only one with that view.

Anonymous said...

Nate sounds partially psychopathic himself. I wonder if he broke psychopathy down to the two most substantial pieces - shallow fleeting emotions and lack of societal morality, how much can he relate to for himself ?
He probably lacks the negative behavioural traits, but behaviour is not pathology. I wonder if he understands what it is to be egocentric. Now compute.

I can understand intellectually, but not emotionally, how people can swallow a pill that says there is one truth and everyone can be happy and get along. There are many truths, partial truths and competing agendas. It takes no Einstein to work that out. Semi organised chaos abounds.

I too enjoy influencing others in positive ways, parred with revealing myself as a psychopath, it helps break down the sensationalistic stereotype. Though, sometimes, it is awfully tempting and fun to lurk behind corners and under beds.

To any psychopaths out there who may be so inclined, I highly recommend Ninjutsu, it is tailor made for us.

Anonymous said...

As always you have a way of seeing through to the heart of things and explain it in a logical way.

I don't see anything psychotic or abnormal about Nate at all, I used to share his view in fact, and I know lots of people do the same.

I understand why psychopaths can turn people's heads around so they don't know what's up and down, if they want to. But when you use that ability to explain things that takes thinking outside of the box to see, you're awesome.

Hope Nate is gonna respond too. He seems to me like a decent fella. And from what I can remember you don't bother to write responses to people who are complete fools.

Jade D said...

"To any psychopaths out there who may be so inclined, I highly recommend Ninjutsu, it is tailor made for us."

Very true. It's even known by clinical psychologists and considered a strengthening factor when you get assessed. If other things match psychopathy when they asses you but they still need a little more to declare you a psychopath, you being into martial arts can help them do that.

Illuminance said...

I agree with you, Zhawq. Knowledge is solely a means to obtaining power and control. I've sought it as my primary goal in life for about six years now with the intention of solidifying my place in the world, thus fulfilling the need to belong (be understood and accepted) in a way that doesn't sacrifice my individuality through excessive compromising.

Knowledge protects from the deception and ignorance of others, and sharpens our own skills of persuasion and deception. The person who has the knowledge necessary for debating others using a combination of observational awareness of their opponents, creative word play, and logical pattern recognition will be extremely dangerous towards opposing ideas. A good example of the greater power of knowledge over force is court ordered psychotherapy that doesn't work for the vast majority of those with psychopathic personalities, because most just fake it to make it until they're out of sight. Only knowledge can ever persuade a person to make a lasting change. Force can only ever persuade a person to not get caught.

A knowledgeable psychopath is extremely dangerous to the status-quo, because they will be able to truthfully pick apart the foundations of society until they're dust. The person capable of dismantling these foundations would likely become very powerful within society. The foundation that gives absolute trust to the police in the United States is an example of a future pile of dust, and who do you think benefits the most from a weakened police force? It's a win-win for everyone, but non-conforming types win more.

Ettina said...

There's a difference between wanting only enough power to accomplish your goals, and wanting power for its own sake.

I want to have regular meals, be able to avoid pain and find pleasure, etc. If I have no power, then I can't ensure that I get those things. So I try to get enough power to get the things I desire.

But to say, based on that, that I want power is like saying my cat wants the porch door open when she really wants to go outside. Sure, she's trying to open the porch door, but if I open it and not the door *out* of the porch, she'll give me a disgusted look and keep pleading. Meanwhile, if I open the front door instead, she'd abandon the porch door and go out.

Similarly, I could try to earn a wage in order to have the spending power necessary to get regular meals, or I could live off my parents because I know they're willing to feed me. I don't care that living off my parents gives me less power, because power doesn't matter to me.

Ettina said...

Oh, and by the way, I have often disagreed with my teachers, and taken lessons different from what they intended to teach. Just because you teach something doesn't mean your student has to learn it. Teaching doesn't give nearly as much power as many people think.

Anonymous said...

Ebola is air born and now outside Africa, and seismic activity is ramping up world wide....oh please please could be our time at long last...Ready to seize the day my fellow psychopaths ?!

Anonymous said...

" Illuminance said...The foundation that gives absolute trust to the police in the United States is an example of a future pile of dust"

All control mechanisms of society are operated by the Shadow Government Psychopaths, that includes intelligence services, military and police. They've war gamed everything and no one is getting rid of them...

Anonymous said...

Dear Zhawq,

Where the fuck are you?


Anonymous said...

I'd like to know how the article's image relates to the actual article itself.

Anonymous said...

Sorry for offtopic, but some time ago I came across a theory that besides primary and secondary, there might be also controlled and inhibited subtypes of psychopaths. Here are some links regarding this theory, Since you are one of the kind, I'm intrested in your opinion regarding these findings.

Anonymous said...

Hey Zhawq, I've always wanted to ask you this, but are you into dark humor? Like, uhhh...

How do you make a little girl cry twice?
Rub your bloody cock on her teddy bear.

Y'know. Just wondering.

Zhawq said...

Anon Nov. 27. 4:50 PM:

I'm very much into black humor.

The example you describe (rubbing my cock on a girl's teddybear to make her cry twice), it's more like something you might do just to hurt her, not because it's funny. That said I can see how it might be funny to guys with psychopathic traits who are younger than I am.

Humor to me is not so much about hurting people but about humorous aspects that may in some cases be part of an event where somebody got hurt.

I'll see if I can think of some examples of what I find to be good humor for a future article. It's a good topic. Thanks for bringing it up.

Troy Griffin said...

Zhawq, in your response to Nate Reynolds you made the statement paraphrasing here "getting people to open up and listen to what you have to teach them is exerting control" This is absolutely false. Just because a person gives their attention to someone and hears them out does not mean that person will choose to internalize even a little let alone all of what is being presented. There is an exception to every rule and this is it, in the case of an established teacher/student relationship where the student places full trust in the teachers presented material PRIOR to the teacher putting it down for the student to pick up, a teacher could possibly place ideas with strings attached on the students plate. if the student chooses to absorb any of this "bait information" then the teacher could possibly lead the student further down the path that previously the student would not have voluntarily chosen. control is not taken from someone in the academic sense, it is given away by the excessively trusting. can you prove this theory wrong?

Troy Griffin said...

Zhawq, humor by it's very nature is always at least a little unfair. The "joke" told about the little girl and the teddy bear alludes to the possibility that the perpetrator bloodied his male organ in a depraved and despicable manner. There is no honest humor there. True humor does not make light of the extreme and permanently damaging torment of another human. True humor is only found when some breathing room is left for the subject of the joke to live another usual day for themselves. Taking out that breathing room altogether is a textbook way of thinking for an extreme psychopath. The guy who sincerely laughs at the teddy bear joke is suspect for sure.

Anonymous said...

I do not believe there is such a thing as "true" or "honest" humor. It's very subjective, I'd say. There is no joke that will be funny for everyone.

Troy Griffin:
"True humor does not make light of the extreme and permanently damaging torment of another human."

Well, isn't that one of the things black humor consists of? And wouldn't that suggest that b.h. is "less true" than, well, "true humor"? Doesn't make sense to me.
Humor is whatever makes you laugh. Or chuckle. Or whatever. It can't become more true than this.

-The Observer

Anonymous said...

Troy, you are in the wrong place place you trolling little goody two shoe faggot. Fuck off with your bullshit and stay out of Zhawqs hair, or you may find me in yours.

Anonymous said...

Troy, this is the guy that told that terrible, despicable, and arguably hilarious joke.

Humor in any way is a matter of taste, even if dark humor is dubbed "tasteless". And taste differs from person to person, rendering labels like "good" or "bad" redundant (so long as it refers to taste rather than facts, as "taste" is virtually synonymous to opinion)

Also, I would think (not saying I'm an expert in psychology, because I'm not) that laughing at such a joke would result in immaturity and/or a laidback attitude, as Zhawq blatantly analyzed and overthought that joke (seeing as how psychopaths are-by definition-very mature), something that jokes mandate neither of those actions to be active.

Anonymous said...

You enjoy "making people happy" as well as various other emotions. This is the delusion that I find in psychopathy. The delusion of control that psychopaths, as narcissists, like to believe. It's the delusion that one can MAKE anyone anything. A "feeling" of power. The joy in a person's expression. As psychopaths like "cause and effect" and to believe that they, in some way, control that.

In fact, because their simple humanity dictates (perhaps more sensitively than others, personal attacks -- as well as -- what feels good)? This is not advanced. To the contrary. It's a primitive state that we all CAN fall back on. Similarly, as they say, we all need money. We could rob a bank. Psychopaths experience fear and anger acutely. So, as communication and primal, childlike frustrations occur, they "know what's coming"? Just like anyone, fear is registered. Self-destruction registers and primal survival kicks in. Sensing the end. Sensing fear. Sensing someone's "anger" vs pleasure, like any child. "Control" is deemed hurting or ending first. Again, nothing monumental and the opposite of impressive. Control? Not at all. Bite first before bitten. We all know the result of our behavior. This doesn't come from a place of intellectual superiority or power.

Additionally, I find that many psychopaths struggle with addictions. This is another example of a lack of control and power in the rawest sense. Addictions cannot be negotiated with. Rules can't change and this proves, to me, the incredible weakness in psychopathy. The example of negotiating and changing the ends, the boundaries being stretched to the limits of none. If psychopaths look seriously at that, for example, the message is clear. Having no boundaries or shifting rules, or trying to "negotiate" with changing standards of morality? Living for "what feels good"? Is the essence of an addict. Really. Nothing more than that.

My feeling is very simple. Too simple. Since psychopaths care so very much about themselves, they may "not care" about people, but they should. If they care about themselves?