Tuesday, April 29, 2014

Bonding and Consequence.

Can a Psychopath bond with other people, and if they can, what does 'bonding' entail for a psychopath? Does he feel love the same way that normal people do? Do I, myself a psychopath, feel love toward those whom I call 'my loved ones'? What DO I feel? And am I persistent? Can I be Trusted in a Relationship? I hope in the following to answer some of these questions.

From my understanding, you are an admitted Psychopath?
Yes, it wasn't easy and I fought it for quite a while (which shows in my earlier postings), but after studying what psychopathy is for the last 2-3 years since I started my website Psychopathic Writings I've had to admit that I do fit the psychiatric definition of a Psychopath. Before that time I didn't acknowledge having any connection to psychopathy.

If so, I find that interesting in itself and also interesting that you believe you only hurt people that threaten you or your loved ones. Can you honestly say that your statement is true?
Sometimes I really do believe it to be true, but when I look at it from a more objective point I guess I must admit it isn't true. Still, I'd argue it is true to the extent that I do never plan to hurt or harm just for the sake of hurting and harming. When it happens - when I hurt/harm someone - it happens for a reason though I must admit it isn't always obvious to the other person what that reason is. Unless I'm acting out in a state of furious rage, I'm always prepared to explain why I did what I did to the person, but at that point not all people care to hear about logical reasoning or causality. But as I see it, if you're not interested in learning about the reasons for someone else's behavior or in finding out about the truth behind an event that you've witnessed or become the center of, then you're missing out not only once, but twice - first because you got in the line of fire, intended or not, and secondly because you don't care to learn something new. Knowledge is power, it comes in all sizes and guises.

How is it that you determine if someone has enough value to you to be considered a loved one?
It differs a little from one time to another and depends somewhat upon the mood I'm in when I decide it, but it also differs depending on the person I'm interested in and what my values and goals are at the time, so it's a very difficult question to answer in a way that doesn't come out as contradictory or vague. I also place different values on various people, for instance, I appreciate a woman who likes to have sex with me but I wouldn't want that from even the best of pals. One thing I cannot stand is when people who consider themselves my friends lie to me because they're afraid I'll look down on them if they tell me the truth. They should know it isn't necessary to lie to me, I never put my friends down for not being as good at something as I am, I basically never put people down for being honest.

It is very common for psychopaths to be very understanding and forthcoming at the start of a friendship or relationship, and then when they know you better and have created a space for themselves in your life, they begin to show their abusive side, they become controlling, degrading, even sadistic. I used to be like this but never did it to everybody I got in touch with. I have always found it important to have a good base of friends that you can trust and who can always trust you, to treat everybody like shit seems to me like being at war with everybody. I don't need that.

I do sincerely try my very best to remain consistent when I've determined that someone is a 'loved one' to me, and I'm pretty good at it too, if I may say so myself - especially when we look at it in a perspective based on how psychopaths usually are with stability and treating those close to them well, and my way isn't completely heard of. There are even examples of psychopathic serial killers who have retained a marriage with kids and were seen as nothing but a loving husband and supportive dad.

Now the 'emotional connection' between me and those I call my 'loved ones' is more practical than emotional for me, not because I don't think they're worthy of deep feelings but because that is what I have to give, and I certainly can like someone very much and have no doubt that when the right woman comes along, I'll like her beyond anyone or anything I've ever liked, and I'll not be one to leave without notice or to stay out with other women, or the like. I would need my space, undoubtedly, but I would be just as prepared to give my woman space.

I see it this way: When you think about it you'll see that it is beneficial to all parties if we behave caring and friendly towards people in general and definitely towards our loved ones, rather than aggressively and hostile, right? On the opposite perspective I believe it's just as beneficial to all parties if we can take action when we're being wronged, it isn't good for society to disarm it's population because it breeds a nation of victims. When people have to rely on an outside authority to keep their loved ones safe you get a person who doesn't have an inner pillar of self esteem based on the knowledge that he can, will and may take action if a situation calls for it.

I think that having taken such action myself is part of the reason why I'm generally more friendly and caring - when I get the chance to be so - than most so called normal people are, because I know first hand what the consequences might be if you overstep the boundaries of others and don't respect their personal space, and most of all, I think it's the right way to do things; you certainly have fewer dumb people wallowing around destroying the property of others just because it's 'fun', or who insults a stranger passing them by on some street knowing well that the stranger can't afford to do what every person should do when met with an insult from some numbnut, because the law in your state happens to say you aren't allowed to take matters (your matters) into your own hands - you must call the authorities and have them do it for you.

I hope this answers some of your questions. I will try to answer more questions of this nature in upcoming articles as I know a lot of my Readers have showed an interest in these. It also helps me in my own quest toward a better understanding of how I - and how normal people - function emotionally and psychologically.


Anonymous said...

Is living with a psycopath like living with a "tamed" tiger? Because a NP dosent fully understand the rules can they ever be safe physically and mentally?

Anonymous said...

Could you describe the perfect world, how you think it should be. Would this be sustainable for you and "normal" people?

Anonymous said...

This was the best article ever!!!

Nata said...

"NP dosent fully understand the rules" The fundamental rule is this: you are an object which can be (ab)used. Yes, you can be safe every once in a while, but, truth is... It's just a manipulation.

Anonymous said...

im the same, though the sustainability thing is an issue, and when looking at the patterns over many years, it becomes a little bit obvious

Anonymous said...

what emotional change have you gone through. do you remember emotions u no longer experience, or a vast change in depth and frequency, situations perhaps ???

Anonymous said...

"Now the 'emotional connection' between me and those I call my 'loved ones' is more practical than emotional for me, not because I don't think they're worthy of deep feelings but because that is what I have to give."

That statement is priceless.

You have succinctly explained how the psychopathic mind works and how it differs from the nuerotypical.

Without the emotional equipment to attach and bond, everything is a logical, analytical and "practical" decision about how a relationship will be of benefit to you.

On it's face it seems cold, and yet maybe this is exactly how the neurotypical mind works beneath the surface, out of our awareness. We are social creatures because it benefits us -- it enables us to survive. NTs are "naturally" social; we don't think through all the aspects you've explained here as you do. You think about what each relationship has to offer you in an explicit way.

When nuerotypicals determine a relationship is no longer of value, we end it. That usually happens after a lot of thinking and reasoning and rationalizing. We may not get INTO relationships that way -- it happens more naturally and emotions are a strong component -- but when things go bad, we become quite "psychopathic."

The more you explain how psychopaths are different, the more you seem similar, but without all the unconscious ways NTs are driven to act by their emotions. And yet NT emotions seem to be the brakes that keep most of us from some really bad behavior. I've wondered about that, about how a lack of emotions can result in bad behavior, but I think it comes down to some sort of filter that emotions provide that don't even allow such thoughts to enter our conscious minds...yet maybe they are there, deep down, somewhere in the subconscious, I suppose. You don't have this filter, and therefore everything -- good and bad -- is out in the open and available for your consideration. What a strange thought. Carl Jung talked about it as our "shadow," the part of us which is deeply hidden in our subconscious mind.

You and your shadow are one.

Thanks for this post.

Anonymous said...

Zhawq could you please write an article about conscience. You don't have a label for it yet!

What I know of myself and other, and I'm guessing you would be fairly similar is:

I am a psychopath and I do have a conscience, it just doesn't check against societal morals.

It is like a computer program that scans current behavior and thinking against that which we hold as truths for ourselves.Psychopaths are usually very sharp in their truth radar, it is without distorting lenses for the most part.

I am naturally immune to societies teaching and conditioning and as such I never took on social standards as mine, while most people are very susceptible, they are so emotionally wired for acceptance and approval from others that they swallow the moral pill of their parents/culture at a very early age.Their conscience, and basic part of the brain we all have, checks against this.

It can be quite easy to manipulate peoples conscience in this regard, make the religious see the value in varied views of right and wrong, and thus when the try and indoctrinate others shouldn't they being giving all the options, the big picture, not just what THEIR CHURCH says.

Too often I read things like psychopath's are without a conscience, they fail to identify the true nature of their conscience, and separate their own subjectivity from it.

Cheers mate

Anonymous said...

your disclaimer is funny.at the end I think you meant liable, not reliable.lol

Illuminance said...

Don't every let up on your defense mechanisms. Dissociate anything that causes attachment to another person. It may bring strength when together, but that strength is only as strong as the weakest link. Pull a gun on me, fuck you. Pull a gun on my attachment, here's everything I own.

rviper said...

Do you do anything someone might find quirky about you? Or anything just for the sake of doing it. Its a pretty broad and personal question, throwing curious thoughts out there aight

Anonymous said...

To illuminance,

Tend to agree, emotional attachments make people act like subjective fools.
I nearly feel embarrassed or shameful or something when I recall that I have done this in the past.
What a dumb ass I was

Laura said...

Hi Zhawq,

I'm really glad I see this article of you. I never asked it, but I too was wondering what you meant by 'loved ones', and 'connections.
This was very informative, and written from a side that me, as a NT, wouldn't expect as a part of a psychopathic person.

Anonymous said...

One thing I've appreciated about your writing is your ability to own your own perspective. This submission contains several instances where the word, you, is appropriately addressing the reader. Though there are also many instances of the use of the word, you, which would be better suited to a first person pronoun. People who relay their own personal perspective in generalized terms of, you, come across as projecting. I prefer your writing when you don't.

Illuminance said...

"I nearly feel embarrassed or shameful or something when I recall that I have done this in the past.
What a dumb ass I was."

I feel something like shame or guilt or something, but because I betrayed myself. I don't feel bad for anyone else mistaking their perspective of my actions. Fuck them. They need to learn some understanding from the perspective of somebody who has been on emotional lock-down their entire lives, and how they would suddenly act if the lock was suddenly broken.

Anonymous said...

to illuminance

yeah, its the same for me, I figure its because I do have a conscience, contrary to popular belief, it just isn't filled with prosocial bullshit.It reflects my thinking and personal standards.

I get your level of anger too. I only see weakness and have complete contempt for people who automatically assume that their belief systems have anything to do with me or my fucking actions.

I could light them on fire and enjoy watching them burn- a, because they are so ignorant and unaware of possibilities, like the fact I don't share their dumb pawn like perspective and I can be very dangerous and b, because they symbolise authority, and are manipulated pawns that actively become tools of the system that discriminates against me and my kind.

I have started a similar blog to Zhawqs, would like to hear your take on much of what I have written.

Illuminance said...

I have a conscience as well, but I'm extraordinarily cerebral. I don't conform to many "prosocial" concepts or laws because I'm smart enough, and aware enough, to avoid the dangers from which many of them are set up to avoid. Jay walking is the simplest example. "Don't go until crosswalk says you can", no fucker I know how to look both ways before crossing because I don't have an IQ of retarded. I've explained some of these to my probation officer and his partner's face too, and the partner was shocked like her authority had never been questioned so thoroughly and overtly by someone on probation. Haha, nice to meet you bitch, can I go to jail now and get my violation over with?

Anonymous said...

I wanted to comment as I've just stumbled across this and find it fascinating.

I would identify myself as quite empathetic yet have had sexual encounters with 2 (maybe three psychopaths).

The first let me in to his life and past and I feel he was telling the truth and he had a difficult childhood which makes me wonder about the nature nurture debate and expressed feelings and emotions regarding his past which I think we're true. Yet in terms if him now when I enquiried about some of his behaviours he said 'ultimately I'm a very selfish person.' But shortly after he let me in on his psychopathic side and I was able to see the true person, he wasn't a nice person btw, (It frustrated me massively that others couldn't, and I'd sound the crazy one if I tried to communicate what he was really like!) then he made things difficult for me so till I cut him out completely.

The second guy I'm seeing now, he is very very high up in a big company and won't let me in at all. I haven't fully expressed to him I know but I do as I recognise the signs from the first guy. Sex is amazing though and he can be nice when he wants to be. So I'm intrigued at how this will go on, what's the outcome?! What would he do if asked him (obviously without using the word psychopath)? Can you have relationships?

Also why are psychopaths emapths drawn to one another?

Anonymous said...

^ about the only thing I have to regret in life was not taking an opportunity with a sweet sexy empath chick, should have rocked her socks off. There is the whole opposites attract thing, they tend to care enough that the cross the divide, and empaths are like the perfect emotional aphrodisiac, well them and children. The asking thing depends on the individual.

Anonymous said...

Great article! I agree with every point in the article! It's really nice to find people who agree with how I view the world and who think like I do! I don't understand why people make such a big deal about people not feeling emotions (I guess I understand because regular people like to think that someone can connect with them emotionally). Well, I would like for more people to realize that it is OK not to feel certain emotions and that it doesn't make you less human. Take me for an example. I do not feel empathy or love for people, but it doesn't mean I can't try to help people or maintain a relationship. When someone complains to me, I try to find a logical solution to his/her problem and perhaps fake some compassion if necessary (judging by the situation). What I feel people don't realize is that society's expectation for emotions FORCES the likes of me to turn to deception and lie to everyone about feeling emotions. If you don't, you get long speeches about selfishness, about how you should show more concern for other people, and other stuff you don't want to hear or deal with, so you kind of turn to lying as a way to prevent tirades. I do hope more people can see through the fact that lack of emotion may in fact be good, like when you don't want fear to interfere with your ability to reason or when you work with people who suffer a lot (empathy would drive you crazy!), and lack of emotion may in fact enable people to do certain jobs better.

This article also did make me realize that there may not be as much reason as I thought to mask my
lack of compassion and certain other emotions because people should in theory be fine with you if they value you for who you are, so I may be able to avoid the speeches I don't feel like dealing with.