Monday, January 2, 2012

Psychopathic Murder Writings. (Part 2)


My First Murder: Why did I do it?

A Reader send me a list of excellent questions regarding My Murders. In this article I will answer the first Three Questions:

You have made reference in your blog to when you were 18 and went to prison for murder the first time. Does that mean you have committed more than one murder?

Yes. I have killed three individual human beings.

Why did you do it?
Actually there was not one, but a combination of reasons to why I decided to kill a person the first time. I avoid saying "I have Murdered someone!" because the word 'murder' has such a sinister connotation to it, it seems to describe an act of meaningless cruelty, and I never thought I killed without logical reason.
  1. Excitement. - I did it because I hungered for life.  
  2. Experiment. - It was in essence an experiment more than anything. 
  3. Control. - I have always been a little strange in that I have a very strong need to be in control of my surroundings, and other people are part of my surroundings. 
It may seem strange or backwards from the perspective of someone who naturally experiences empathy, that I would find gratification in my insatiable hunger and thirst for life by taking that very thing away from someone else. But perhaps you can get an idea about my mindset if you think about the saying "One person's survival is another person's death" and what that means.

What did you expect to gain?
I expected to find out how a person would react in reality, seeing and experiencing it for myself first hand, when they're inflicted pain upon and they know they'll be killed, that they're going to die within a very short time. I also expected it to be an experience with excitement for a life time. As it turned out, that wasn't what I got.

Killing people isn't all that it is made out to be, and I'm sharing my own experiences so that - besides providing material for researchers - I may be enabling others to benefit from having this information before they put their own lives and freedom at stake (as well as those of their potential victims, of course, though they're not what I'm personally or emotionally concerned about) by trying this for themselves. - I'm fully aware, though, that those of you who are very high on Factor 2 traits will be likely to make your own experiences anyway.

First of all, as I found out later each individual reacts differently to various situations, and that includes reactions to being submitted to torture and knowing meanwhile that they'll die, either as a result of the torture or when their torturer decides that it is time to kill them, or because he just don't find the situation interesting any longer and therefore kills them.

Furthermore, the impression we get, and are so used to, from watching and listening to portrayals and murderer interviews, in movies and Real Crime TV shows, i.e.(re-)creating murder scenes and describing the act of killing... all of this is in many ways nothing like the real thing.

To a psychopathic youth these sources (TV, movies, books, News Papers) more or less indirectly promises more than most individuals, who at some point do themselves Commit Murder, will be able to obtain in real life.

The way they do this in movies is to carefully design each event, every detail has been prepared and researched by professionals with years of experience and often years of education in film making, and who therefore also have knowledge about how exactly to push the psychological buttons in the viewers that will cause the viewer to experience the greatest possible amount of excitement without them actually having to do anything or even be physically present on the murder scene. All they have to do is watch.

In our society killing one of our own species is probably the greatest taboo we have. It is based on the Western world's Christian heritage, but when a functioning logical explanation is lacking, to a young and rebellious person who doesn't have the common ability to experience empathy, taboos make no sense. To someone without the mysterious connection called Empathy, which most of my Readers take for granted, one of the foremost purposes in life logically must be personal gratification in whichever form you can get it.

This is how I have been thinking throughout most of my life, and it is how psychopaths think - usually throughout all of their lives. - The modern philosophy of keeping psychopaths in the dark as much as possible is dangerous and will prove counter productive. But that's for another article.

We all know the saying: "Forbidden Fruit Taste Best". And to me one thing was certain: Legal fruit had almost no taste at all; I was so very hungry to experience life, but the small part of life which I was offered and allowed to taste seemed like nothing more than an endless string of colorless monotony, morals without sense, boring and pathetic formalistic performances of social interactions about which everybody insisted they felt this or that but which none of them could (or would?) explain.

They (the adults, the caretakers, school teachers, therapists, psychologists, even other kids) always believed I was fully capable of feeling all the same things that they did, but I just was too bad and too evil to be willing to do so.

I found early on that forbidden fruit did indeed taste the best, and I sought it out with fervor and all the reckless, energetic confidence of a young teenager's unrealistic expectations to life.

I expected the act of killing another person to be the greatest experience I could possibly ever hope to get, and the plan was of course to get away with it too. I would outwit the adults, compared with whom I thought myself unquestionably and utterly superior. To Get away with Murder seemed to me to be a way of proving to myself that I had complete control, and control has always been a central part of what drives my actions.

And I did get away with My First Murder... for a while. I was caught a few months later.

36 comments:

Anonymous said...

I was wondering if you had backed out for a while.

Great article.

lele said...

Did you pick some random person of he/she was some acquaintance of yours?

TheChosenOne said...

redrum!

Anonymous said...

Thanks! Good article. I'm looking forward to the next installment.

TheChosenOne said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Z said...

Thanks, you-know-who. ;)

Ettina said...

"To a psychopathic youth these sources (TV, movies, books, News Papers) more or less indirectly promises more than most individuals, who at some point do themselves Commit Murder, will be able to obtain in real life."

In what way? Is it that you're not in control of their behavior even though you can kill them? I heard that Kristin French (who Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka murdered, and videotaped it) was yelling insults at them instead of begging and pleading like they do in movies. I always figured if I was about to be killed, I'd try to make it as unpleasant as possible for the guy trying to kill me. Refuse to obey anything they tell me, pretend I'm not scared of them, call them names and go for the things that would be most likely to upset them, that sort of thing. (I was rewatching episode 1 of Dexter recently and chuckling at how stupid his first victim in that episode was - if someone was choking me and told me to drive to an isolated place, I'd insist on him killing me right there, to increase his chance of getting caught. Especially considering that guy was a serial killer himself, he should've known what Dexter was planning.)

Anonymous said...

"They (the adults, the caretakers, school teachers, therapists, psychologists, even other kids) always believed I was fully capable of feeling all the same things that they did, but I just was too bad and too evil to be willing to do so."

I don't know if its so much the feeling thing, but more the BEHAVING thing. You psychopaths make this problem yourself, by putting on an act and behaving in a way that is more in harmony with your surroundings for awhile, then you get "bored" and decide to destroy things just for pleasure. There are plenty of pleasures both legal and illegal that are available that don't require a victim. Its the stupid, counter-productive sadism provoked by a mere boredom that is really frustrating about you types. You are willing to sacrifice many many things just for a tiny taste of "gratification" which is seemingly never enough for you. You folk claim to be logical, but are severely lacking in that department. Does it make sense that you should end a human life; which has had many MANY resources put into it, is capable of many different things, and is generally valuable in this logical sense, simply so you can experience a little fleeting excitement and control? Is that a balanced equation? No, not at all. If anything, it seems almost like psychopaths are driven by primitive emotion and not logic, at all. The logic I have seen psychopaths use has always been fallacious, literally logical fallacies to an unbelievable degree, I'm not even sure you or M.E. for that matter have ever used truly legitimate logic. There's far too many misconceptions about you types, and you guys promote most of them.

Andreas said...

Anonymous January 9, 2012 5:23 PM

"Your" sense of value is something that is always quite strange, to someone like us.
"Many resources being put into something...and is generally valuable" An interesting concept but to a psychopath, it holds no water.
1) We are naturally egalitarian, which has good associations, like us not being racist or sexist, and a perfectly ambivalent implication that everything is equal. A human life is as valuable as any other animal's life.
People make these biased and emotional arguments, and expect that they are universally true. Does a human mother care more for the infant she nurses, than a dolphin or cat that nurses its respective infants?
The harder you push the idea that the human is 'superior' the more illogical you appear, and the more you alienate us. This can generate contempt, if we are held accountable for not agreeing 'your' assumptions. "putting on an act and behaving in a way that is more in harmony with your surroundings for awhile", which in reality is us being constrained by "your" expectations, without regard to our thoughts/feelings/experience/interpretations. Like any human, relief is sought; and that pursuit of relief can also be destructive. The only difference particular to us would be the apathy involved in that potentially destructive act.
2) There is a certain "logic" to emotions, if one considers them legitimate. For a psychopath, that "logic" must be learned, because intrinsically, many emotions make no sense.

3) Criminal activity is not intrinsic to being a psychopath. What Zhawq is gifting you with, is the chance to see how a psychopath interprets crime. Zhawq's reasons for committing the crime are explained. Crime that leads to punishment is clearly not logical, if you do not want to be punished. This is the same for psychopaths and non-psychopaths alike. The important differences is what drives a person to commit a crime. Zhawq specifically mentioned reasons why a young psychopath should avoid pursuing this same avenue.

Being bored is a salacious way of stating that we are unfulfilled. The human/animal life is just a small example of how differently we can view the world. You could not explain to me how a human life is naturally more valuable than the life of a non-human animal. The rationale that you would use is different because it is based on feelings that I do not have. Believing your view to be natural, you would force the most significant component of that belief, your feelings. It makes as much sense as shouting at a deaf individual. Your agitation and constant attempts at being understood would signify that your message is important to you but ultimately, you will neither be heard nor understood. And that is because you do not understand how to communicate with your recipient.

Now, "is capable of many different things" is quite easy to understand. That is a logical statement, devoid of any emotions. A human is capable of contributing to society in ways that another animal is unable to. I, or any psychopath, could rather easily understand that (Conversely, you might need to explain why a human that does not contribute should not be killed haha I am mostly joking.)
If you want to teach a psychopath to be "good" you must do so in terms that make sense to a psychopath. Rather fortunately, I grew up in an environment that afforded the opportunity to make my own sense of the behaviour of others. *2)*
--
To understand me, one would need to know that I am not cynical. Simply put, I do not see animals as 'lesser' and thus equate humans as 'lesser'. Yet, I neither elevate nor romanticize either.
--
on a side note, psychopaths are not truly sadistic. What Zhawq described was "attempted sadism", trying to draw pleasure from taking a life. This was more a case of apathy/lack of empathy, rather than sadism.

Innomen said...

Commenting only on the original work and not the subsequent comments, I have to note you left out an important question.

How do we know this isn't a lie?

I personally still find it very difficult to believe you've ever killed anyone, even in a detached socially acceptable way as with a solider dropping a bomb.

But I admit that I am a judge of cultures and large scale trends while being equally blind to individuals. Perhaps my beliefs relevant to how a killer would act is based on a psychological mean that you fall outside of.

I know very much what it's like to be an emotional alien with respect to your peers, and thus I suspect it would be hard for others to generally detect certain things about me. Perhaps my judgment is in this way mislead.

However, as a default position I trust myself. Further, you admit to being a capable perhaps even pathological liar.

In this culture of death and torture worship, I can easily imagine a number of personal motives for either intentionally deceiving others to paint yourself as more interesting then you perhaps are, or finding ways to alter your own memories over time, convincing yourself something occurred which did not.

Side note: Everyone does this and as such should what I call "Remember Critically" as one would read a book or newspaper. A great way to express the need for this is to think about a movie you saw as a child and having seen for at least 10-15 years, write down a bunch of details and impressions and then rewatch the movie and see how wrong you were.

Further, see how your memories later will adapt themselves to the new facts.

Of course ultimately it doesn't matter if anyone believes you or not, and to be perfectly blunt and honest it doesn't really matter to most of us if you did or didn't. But the question of this whole thing possibly being a ploy needs to be addressed. Even if it's simply a flat denial.

Anonymous said...

Along with Andreas' post, you refer to all of us as enforcing misconceptions. Is this true? It is very far from being so. It's as if saying all neurotypicals believe in specific religious values or otherwise. Believe it or not, but each and every human being differs in their own little way. Your method of thinking is medieval, truly. At the very least, you could have said Zhawq instead of referring to all pyschopaths. Here's a fun little fact for those who believe that pyschopaths are unfeeling monsters. Loneliness for example has been known to cause intense hypersensitivity in pyschopaths. Dennis Nilsen, "The kindly killer"( I absolutely despise to use a serial killer as an example, but I know little of otherwise diagnosed pyschopaths.) was so lonely he killed several people to watch television with them, talk with them and write them poetry. Let me tell you a bit about my reasoning. I feel no guilt whatsoever about doing anything to anyone. However, if they know I did such, if I am confronted with it, garner their dislike or hate for it? I tend to feel disheartened. I care about what people think of me just as anyone else would.. Along with this, while pyschopaths may not experience empathy as a neurotypical would, this only means we may feel other emotions more intensely. A neurological change leads to a whole string of new possible reactions.

Anonymous said...

Can you 'feel' empathy for yourself?
You say you are only emotionally connected to yourself- so when you look for gratification and find the result disappointing- do you feel sorry for yourself? And if so can you apply that to others?
Language is very tied in emotion- but what exactly IS emotion? You comment on appreciating things, you have hopes, you have desires... where is the line?

Hanani Moss :P said...

Anonymous January 9, 2012 5:23 PM:
I don't know if its so much the feeling thing, but more the BEHAVING thing. You idiots make this problem yourself, by putting on an act and behaving in a way that is self-proclaimedly surperior to your surroundings; you get bored and decide to insult things just for pleasure. Its the stupid, counter-productive sadism provoked by a mere boredom that is really frustrating about you types. You are willing to make an ass of yourself to achieve some feeling of self-worth which is seemingly never enough for you. You folk claim to be logical, but are severely lacking in that department. Does it make sense that you should insult and attempt to dehumanise a psychopath; which has had many MANY ideas and emotions, is capable of many different things, and is generally valuable in this logical sense, simply so you can experience a little fleeting excitement and control? Is that a balanced equation? No, not at all. If anything, it seems almost like Internet morons are driven by primitive emotion and not logic, at all. The logic I have seen you use has been fallacious, literally logical fallacies to an unbelievable degree, I'm not even sure you have ever used truly legitimate logic.
Hypocrite much?

Anonymous said...

Andreas, I never said anything about humans being superior relative to animals. I am a vegan and if I had to chose between killing an innocent animal and a standard guilty american I'd have to logically, and emotionally chose the member of my own race for death. You seem to have assumed many things about me that are untrue, and in fact the opposite is true of me. I feel more of a connection to non-human animals and nature than to my own race, one reason being the human race has become fairly psychopathic as a whole. I think dolphins may be more advanced than humans are, too. Psychopaths are not egalitarian as they view themselves as better. You project an air of arrogance and authority as if your word is divine and promote what are considered positive concepts, but as I've learned many times before, the word of a psychopath holds no water. Funny you mention that psychopaths have to *learn* logic, because I've always thought them to be incredibly illogical and use logical fallacies almost exclusively. I wonder if part of it has to do with the lack of ability to attribute an emotional connotations to words, hence the inherent inability to ever truly understand them. I noticed a lot of psychopaths tend to replace words with what they consider synonyms of the original word used but very often use words with a similar but different meaning and end up saying things that are incorrect and or don't make sense.

"Crime that leads to punishment is clearly not logical, if you do not want to be punished"

this makes no sense. Just because you do not want something, does not nullify the logic of it. For every action is an equal and opposite reaction. One interpretation of this could be that, for every action, there is consequences. For everything you do, there is an outcome. If you jump on a weak piece of wood, it breaks, it is not illogical because you didn't want it to break. If you commit an action that is against the wishes of your community so much so that they have designated a consequence for such action, it is linear logic that you will incur that consequence as a result of that action. It matter not what one wants, the logical rules of reality is what matters, and you psychopaths seem generally incapable of comprehending this because of your selfish, grandiose, parochial view.

ResCogitans said...

if you've murdered 3 times why aren't you in prison?

Hank said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

"I don't know if its so much the feeling thing, but more the BEHAVING thing."

You cannot separate the two things. Behavior arises from feelings in some form.

"You psychopaths make this problem yourselves"

How do you propose a child who is trying to mimic the behavior he sees around him can create a problem merely by not being skilled enough? It's the adults who lack knowledge and understanding about human diversity.

Innomen,

Zhawq has been put under a lot of scrutiny. I don't know what to tell you, man, those who know, know. I think there are three groups of people: Those who have been in for murder themselves (or got away with it - I didn't), those who simply want to learn, and those who are more skeptic. Maybe you just got to read a bit more of his articles. If you go back you can see he's not writing to get attention, there are other ways to do that a lot more effectively and he has put much too much effort into making this website genuine and informative. Many psychopaths do love attention, and yeah, I think Zhawq thrives on some of it too. But it doesn't fit with the work he's doing here. For one, where are all the gory details? They're the ones people will pay attention to, not academic descriptions about what a single psychopath thinks about some feelings or lack of remorse. Well, just my two cents.

"Can you 'feel' empathy for yourself?"

He's written about this somewhere on the blog. But he doesn't understand that concept. It's because self pity is about being sorry for yourself for a long time after something happened and as a psychopath you tend to move on. Self pity would be used as a show to get others to feel pity on you, but not a real emotion.

ResCogitans,

he's described this in other pages on the blog. But I'm curious about the details too.

Anonymous said...

There is a significant amount of evidence to suggest that:

-less intelligent psychopaths end up in prisons (highly intelligent psychopaths can run companies)

-there may be a genetic influence that creates a psychopathic personality

-adult psychopaths do not benefit from traditional counseling therapy and may in fact offend again and sooner because of it

-the brain of a psychopath may function and process information differently from those of non-psychopaths

-psychopathic behavior may have once had a strong genetic "survival of the species" value

:o Zhawq they called you stupid. Do you agree with this?

Anonymous said...

This man is clearly genuine. If he wanted to be interesting he'd write about serial killers or that he was one.

He's waited a year before he wrote this, I checked, the blog is more than a year old. If he was just trying to be interesting he'd have written about this much much sooner.

Andreas said...

(what I had originally intended to write, before I became distracted)
"Forbidden Fruit Taste Best". And to me one thing was certain: Legal fruit had almost no taste at all"
Initially, I was surprised and a tad dismayed that I could not connect to your experiences. Killing for excitement struck me as a completely foreign concept.

I would never have anticipated that taking a life would give me pleasure. I've had attractive alternatives to finding pleasure, so the logic that lead you to murder would not have occurred to me.
Once you explained your logic, I was able to understand the differences. I can see how you came to view the world in that way. Very interesting.

I often find many interactions with others to be monotonous and formalistic but I have been able to find ways to survive. Without having to closely imitate others, I have found ways to mostly feel fulfilled. I find my own way, and I am very tenacious in my approaches.

"when a functioning logical explanation is lacking, to a young and rebellious person who doesn't have the common ability to experience empathy, taboos make no sense. "
This is where it makes sense. I have found ways to fit in. I learned to view the emotional logic of others as if it were legitimate. This prevents me from becoming too rebellious or resentful. Well, if I am not too oppressed, and positive opportunities continue to present themselves to me. If so, I feel little need to consider my intrinsic, alternate, views.

They {…}always believed I was fully capable of feeling all the same things that they did, but I just was too bad and too evil to be willing to do so.
I can also see how the disregard of the They could make you resentful of them in general. I also seems as a possible precursor to taking someone's life. Of what value could they be to you?
Kind of sad really...

I thought myself unquestionably and utterly superior.

Notions of superiority have always seemed to me, a death sentence. It fosters unnecessary risk. I've always been rather shrewd and perhaps paranoid haha.

Skillfully written; you revealed much, and also kept much a secret.

Andreas said...

To Anonymous: January 12, 2012 2:10 PM

I would greatly enjoy speaking with you! This is a topic that I have been pondering, for quite some time.
"I feel no guilt whatsoever about doing anything to anyone. However, if they know I did such, if I am confronted with it, garner their dislike or hate for it? I tend to feel disheartened. I care about what people think of me just as anyone else would.. "
I read Dr Martha Stout's book, and while her understanding of psychopaths/sociopahts is a tad wanting, her understanding and analysis of human behaviour is quite useful. I would enjoy helping you tease apart her analysis on what is and is not remorse/guilt. I expect that I would also gain from dialogue.

"I absolutely despise to use a serial killer as an example, but I know little of otherwise diagnosed pyschopaths.)"

Diagnosed is tricky.
Dr. Robert Hare's PCL-R is what people are using to diagnose someone.
Dr. Hervey Cleckley, who preceded Dr. Hare, wrote that psychopaths are not psychotic. That was a fundamental point of his. (Mask of Sanity)
Dr Hare states that serial killers can be psychopaths but not all serial killers are psychopaths (without a conscience).

Lack of remorse doesn't work well, when the person is psychotic. They do not 'truly understand' what they are doing in the conventional sense. That is obviously a bit delusional, being that a sane individual would not be satisfied with the company of the dead.
It does bring up an excellent question. Was he a psychopath that went mad, or was he mad for some other reason? I read a research journal article describing a similar phenomenon but with a different serial killer.

Based on my opinion, I would rather rule psychotics out, as far as being psychopaths but I am not the authority on the subject. Quite fascinating really. I propose that psychopaths are a type of person, which means there will be variation in behaviour, so why not have a full range of psychological maladies?

Please do contact me. My gmail is kinaquisition. From there I will email you my direct address.
Cheers mate!

Andreas said...

To Anon January 15, 2012 8:01 AM

You completely misunderstood my post. I typed "your" meaning not specifically you. As an anonymous poster, I know nothing of you; so I could not and would not attack/reference you directly.
General expectations, like the ones you mention in your post, are what I was referring to, not your individual expectations.

If it is a flame war you want, I'm terribly sorry but I couldn't be bothered.
It's a pity too, because you brought up a few points that I'd be happy to discuss.

I am interested in people with specific psychological traits, like my own. Hopefully, my target audience can recognize my intended message...
----
In spite of myself...
I wonder if part of it has to do with the lack of ability to attribute an emotional connotations to words, hence the inherent inability to ever truly understand them. I noticed a lot of psychopaths tend to replace words with what they consider synonyms of the original word used but very often use words with a similar but different meaning and end up saying things that are incorrect and or don't make sense.

Words have general definitions, and context dependent definitions.
As far as psychopaths using words incorrectly, I have seen this theory mentioned many times but it is, in my opinion, very weak. Poor experimental design; there are no controls. One would need to compare the word usage of psychopathic criminals to non-psychopathic criminals with similar educational backgrounds. I have seen researchers cite simple grammatical mistakes as evidence of a psychopaths tenuous grasp of language. (If any grad students are reading this, I could stand to have my name in a few publications haha). There may be something to the idea but I believe there are too many confounding variables.

Anonymous said...

You're a fake. You wouldn't be released from jail when you've murdered.

Anonymous said...

Blog has been removed
Sorry, the blog at fuckimapsychopath.blogspot.com has been removed. This address is not available for new blogs.

Ettina said...

An irrelevant comment:

I just wrote a blog entry about a specific thing about empaths that psychopaths seem not to get, and I'd be interested to hear your comments on it. The blog entry is here:

http://abnormaldiversity.blogspot.com/2012/02/line.html

Ettina said...

Regarding psychopath speech patterns, it's not so much using words incorrectly, but studies have found differences:

https://circle.ubc.ca/handle/2429/32384

It's more a tendency to lose track of what they're saying, to have a bunch of statements that aren't as well connected to each other. Things like using pronouns without enough context to make it clear who they're referring to, or when telling a story leaving more unresolved plot units. (Note that this is a tendency, doesn't mean they always will do this or that non-psychopaths don't ever do it.) Oh, and they did use a control group of criminals with similar intelligence and educational background to the psychopaths. That's pretty standard in most research into psychopathy, regardless of what they're studying. (Except in the few cases where they actually go looking for non-criminal psychopaths, such as by getting college students to fill out self-report scales of psychopathy.)

Anonymous said...

I wonder I if its possible to grow some sort of empathy the older you get. I remember when i was a kid, all i wanted to do was to harm people. i always thought that when i was older, i would abuse someone til death. id actually hit my sister all bloody and bruised, id scratch her arms so deeply she got scars and id cut her with scissors and knives and i never felt remorse or empathy. but, as i got older the more understanding i got for this society. i am 17 now and i still want to abuse people sometimes but i know i would feel bad afterwards if I ever did, and also that id get in a lot of trouble. i dont do any harm to people now. well i do hurt them but i cant help that since i dont understand how people get hurt. i dont know what i am at all.. and people do not understand me. i manipulate them but i have noticed that the people closest to me have started to know when i lie. i dont really know what kind of answer im expecting, i just want someone to understand me.
could you please help me? what should i do? and do u think i am a psychopath? i do have a concience but i dont care about it at all

Anonymous said...

EQ can also be split into subfactors. Here are your subfactor scores:
Cognitive Empathy: x percentile. High scores indicate an accurate perception of how others are feeling without necessarily having an emotional reaction to it.
Social Skills: x percentile. High scores indicate a good understanding of social situations, understanding the messages that others are trying to put across and being able to put across your own easily.
Emotional Reactivity: x percentile. High scores indicate a stronger emotional reaction to the emotions that others are feeling.

Is it true that psychopaths would be higher in the first aspect of EQ and low in the last aspect? High cog. empathy vs. low emotional reactivity?

Hank said...

"Is it true that psychopaths would be higher in the first aspect of EQ and low in the last aspect? High cog. empathy vs. low emotional reactivity?"

I asked Zhawq about this.
His reply:

"Yes, that is actually spot on!"

lele said...

@Anonymous
Yes, I think you can develop some empathy. I used to harm little animals for fun when I was a kid, now I don't do that anymore. It's not that neurotypicals are born angels, you know. There's a reason why the test for psychopathic personality is meant for adults only.

I look at psychopaths as people with stunted emotional development. They seem to think and feel like children, in every aspect. I think that everyone is selfish at the end of the day, but psychopaths are obsessively selfish and self-centered. They never seem able to see the big picture. Not that every neurotypical can do that as well.

So, there might be hope for psychopaths, but since their psychopathy makes them think they are perfect already, they are never going to improve. See, as much as you see neurotypicals as slaves to their emotions, not all of them are. Only low-functioning ones. I'm able to shut down my emotions at will and think and act like a machine. Give me a reason and I'll do anything. Anything. I think of myself as an high-functioning neurotypical. Yet, my emotions fill my day, and I never get bored or crave new entertainment besides that which comes to naturally.

lele said...

Zhawq, you didn't answer my question: did you pick some random person of he/she was some acquaintance of yours? Thanks.

Generic Name Here said...

It seems that a surprising number of people did not catch the angle you were coming from, my friend. Just another example of how people take their own opinions, be they based on facts or experiences, and refuse to see something from another angle, because they can't accept the fact that they aren't correct 100% of the time. It's a ego defense. Keep doing what you do, keep being who you are, and most importantly, keep up the good works. I enjoy reading your blog. Bye bye.

stavraki said...

I'm an empath - I suppose to borrow your language - but I am not using the term to claim superiority. I've used it to open a dialogue with the 'other side' of human nature.

To begin, the term 'empath' is too restrictive. As a human, I am capable of committing atrocities - as is any human being depending on situational context. I would have thought that Nazi Germany was case in point. It wasn't just Hitler. It was the entire nature subsumed by a period of psychopathy.

That's what I call the human capacity for 'contextual psychopathy'. I do not accept that there is not a spectrum of empathy and psychopathy - and here's the clincher - they are two *independent dimensions* running in parallel. Not one dimension with psychopathy at one end and empathy at the other. Two - separate dimensions. I believe they operate inter-dependetly, and that the great mistake we've made is to presume that they should run oppositionally.

There is no-one who will convince me that we readers of your blogs are not here to read - for the ghoulish curiosity - the echo of psychopathy - thrill, dark impulses, taking gratification and vicarious ghoulish delight - at hearing from people who call themselves self-confessed psychopaths. People are *curious* from the psychopathic side of human nature.

So, blood lust - I think that's the old fashsioned term for the modern re-invention of: the sadistic psychopathic lust killers - entre Ted Bundy. But only part of the picture. And in a polymorphic 'taxonomy' of psyhopathy - the socially adaptive variants and many faces of psychopathy - who co-exist with the empathic world.

I take the view that empaths, the hegemonic majority - are persecuting yet another minority - psychopaths - and the persecution, ironically, comes from the psychopathic side of their natures. In an unconscious expression of their psychopathy, there is hypocrisy persecution of the human predators amongst us. Enter coroporate takeovers, animal slaughter houses, genocides, etc.

So, the term 'psychopath' is restrictive, reductionist and intrinsically dishonest.

As such - I wanted to talk about the place of 'psychopathic logic' - the primary tool of psychopathic behaviour, and its *range* of expression in different kinds of psychopathy. Then - logically - how logic faculties can transition between psychopathic states - and again - using logic to prevent psychoapthic individuals from -- self destructing -- by doing something illogical --

And then an interrelationship of it with what people call here the 'neurotypical' empaths.

Has it occurred to anyone - and dare I say this one - that psychopathic behaviour can *serve* both itself and empaths in a greater communion and inter-relationship with life. To *mutual* benefit.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone have suggestions how to get some satisfaction in a socially acceptable ( all right , at least less risky ) ways. Voilence and sexual abuse do a bit, the occassional good movie like cape fear, but sometimes that just makes it harder . Any food for thought ???

Anonymous said...

To anonymous vegan... I agree with you about the logical fallicies and the incorrect use of certain words among psychopaths. Especially words that have a certain interpretation in a social / interpersonal context. It seems the logical fallicies of the psychopaths go hand in hand with the contradictions and the misinterpreted use of words of a social nature. Let's take the concept of "cruelty" for example. To truly understand the word "cruelty" I believe a certain level of empathy and emotional depth is required. Without any emotional and empathic understanding what could "cruelty" mean to you? It would mean something, but not the same as it means to those who are capable of emotionally acknowledning a cruel act. I find it interesting though disturbing that Zhawq says: "I avoid saying 'I have murdered someone' because the word murder has such a sinister connotation to it, it seems to describe an act of meaningless cruelty and I never thought I killed without logical reason" And then a few lines down he describes how one of his reasons for killing was to see how the other person would react when inflicted pain upon and tortured, knowing that he will die. Now to the rest of the empathic world this would be considered cruelty in itself. How he sees this as a logical reason for killing, I fail to comprehend. I guess psychopaths operate by a whole different egocentric logic system which does not embrace social logic. When I say egocentric I mean revolving around the needs and urges of the self. "It's good for me, therefore it's logical". It's logical to eat when you're hungry and I guess the same logic applies to any other urges, needs the psychopath might have. Although it seems many psychopaths learn to keep this logic to themselves since it does not agree with the logic of the rest of the world, and ultimately will have social consequences if applied. What a lonely world it must be for the psychopathic mind

Anonymous said...

You are just rationalizing your own emotional needs to feel in control. I would get no thrill from killing, and don't kill animals either except for bugs but that's because they are so small. I think this is more of a superiority complex which on the flip side is some denial of feeling inferior.

What is logical about putting your life in jeopardy, risking your freedom just for a feeling of a thrill.

Feelings, whoa whoa whoa lol like that Janet Jackson video control.

Oh, memories of the corner of my heart...something is there about memories and emotions. I think a true psychopath wouldn't care so much to feel or go too far out of his way to manipulate anyone. Who cares. Go play a video game or read a friggin book.

Revenge is the most petty emotion of all. The want/need of power is pretty pathetic too.