Friday, July 15, 2011

Morbid Curiosity or Natural Interest?

When a psychopath, who is otherwise always thought of as uncaring for people or for how they function, shows interest in and fascination with how the human body is structured - well, how every creature is structured, really - inside and out, I think it ought to be taken as a positive sign.

I personally think this is one of the most natural kinds of interests that a person can have and have always thought it to be at least part of the motivation when someone decides to become a surgeon, or any kind of physician.

But it is seen as strange and even morbid... Why is that?

I remember already as a kid that I didn't understand why everybody - even adults - when they were going to hospital to have surgery done, would say: "I'm glad I'll be under anesthesia, so I won't have to see them cut in me!"

'Not see them cut in you!... But you'll miss all the most interesting part of it!! If it was me I'd WANT to be awake so I could see as much as possible!'

It's been one of my ongoing frustrations when I've had surgery that I can't get to see the whole thing.
Two years ago, shortly after I'd been released from prison, I learned for the first time that now it is possible to do surgery while the patient is fully awake.
I watched a movie where such a surgery procedure was filmed through the first two minutes, and the patient was awake alright, but he had a large shield placed across his upper chest so that he couldn't see what was going on, and it just seemed so absurd to me. He was being cheated!

I've had surgery done on a number of occasions, and also some diagnostic procedures involving techniques to look inside my body. And every single time it has been a frustrating battle between me and the doctors, because I want to see what they're doing, but the doctors can't seem to wound their minds around the fact that I really would be pleased with getting to watch everything.
Numerous times have I had to somehow 'cheat' my way into getting to see what goes on. Often it means I have to writhe myself into an impossible position, like f.x. when something as innocent as an ultrasound scan is being done. They place the monitor so that it faces away from the patient, and often it doesn't even seem to be very practical for how the doctor has to be positioned either. Even so they put a lot of effort into not letting me see anything.

Okay, I've sensed at times it's not only a misunderstood attempt to be considerate, it also seems in some cases as if they think I'm trying to steal my way into seeing how they do things, and I'm just not supposed to know because I don't have a doctor's degree - or something like that. I don't claim to understand completely, and I don't think they do either. But there has been some weird protective streak in their behavior - protective towards 'their' work, not to my feelings or safety.

Anyway, I wish there would be a common procedure that allowed a patient to decide up front if s/he wants to follow and see everything that happens, or perhaps wants to get it filmed so they can take a DVD home with them as a memory token.


ZKM said...

There are multiple reasons a patient is not allowed to view various procedures. For one, sometimes they ask too many fucking questions. "What are you doing?! Oh my god is it supposed to look like that??" Physicians are professionals who (should) know what they're doing, they don't want to be micro-managed by halfwits (which you may not be, but most people are). Two, with the way doctors are getting sued right and left these days, you don't want your patient to catch you if you make a small mistake they wouldn't otherwise notice. Lastly, something that doesn't effect you but DOES effect empaths is panic and anxiety. Watching yourself get cut into, whether it be by a physician or Charles Manson, can set off the stress responses in your body, the first of which is most commonly known as 'fight or flight'.

Biologically, one of the biggest challenges and dangers in surgery is maintaining a safe blood pressure in the patient. Many people have an aversion to, if not blood in general, their own blood, which can result in dangerous fluctuations in blood pressure. When you are cut open you cannot afford that. A lot of people think they can handle it but can't. And with the way Malpractice Insurance has skyrocketed in the past decade, it's easier to avoid any problems by simply saying 'no'.

However, why wait to view your own surgery? In many hospitals you can observe surgeries (with patient sign-off of course). Also, there are medical films and documentaries with real surgeries and play-by-play explanations that are quite informative. And the best part, is it's not YOU being cut open! Personally I would suggest you catch the documentary series Trauma: Life In the ER or Code Blue. They have very accurate accounts and footage of how various very serious injuries are treated in the emergency room.

I understand your point, but the only answer I can give you is that we are a minority and society is geared towards the majority. I have always always always been extremely fascinated with bodies in general, human or otherwise. When I would find a dead animal as a child I would dissect it and pull out all of its organs and examine them; the different colors, textures, etc. When I got a bit older I would research the parts and try to identify them. Needless to say, I always aced Anatomy in school.

The problem is, most people aren't like me or even like you. Anatomy is considered 'gross' and 'disgusting'. The average female has a stroke come Mammogram time and males faint at even the mention of a Prostate exam. Why would a doctor believe you could handle seeing yourself cut into for several hours when most men can hardly handle a hand up their ass for a five minute exam? It may be stupid, but it's a fact. I personally would love to watch my own surgery.

Anonymous said...

how considerate you are ZKM, to explain all those, it's so impressive. :)

Anonymous said...

-Just a side note: we didn't just sit at the table for 2 hours, we realized the task was taking some time thinking of ideas for what we could call a 'gift', so we played several rounds of Boggle while trying to come up with a list ;)
Quality family time, heh? My boys are bright, and enjoy a chance to brainstorm & an attempt to outdo each other/me. Hey, at least it helped pass the time on what was a challenging assignment. the boys came up with 1 gift in the first hour. But there I was, the gd cheerleader, hoping for discovery in the assignment and having to tease and prod to extract these evasive 'positives'. It took TIME to attain the sweet success of higher thinking. As the song goes "you know it don't come easy'. lmao

- I was surprised at how the 'bible thumper' got such a reaction of time/effort? I know, I know: I too got caught up in the silliness at 1st. But see how I'm learning? After two posts, I figured, "Can't fix stupid" and let it go. In my younger days, I would've wasted too much time debating the shit right back at her (? Ireland/Sophia or whatev she goes by nowadays).

Can't we just communicate here?
I can only get on my VPN ~ every 3 days, so here is easiest for me. Plus, more discreet from the man, if you catch me? I'm an honest injun, but the ex was farrrrrr from it. They watch me/protect me, you know? The surveillance provides a measure of comfort for all its worth, but kinda makes me uneasy about having personal happenings (not related to anything but my own quest for heightened self awareness) out there. I just don't wanna deal with the possible dissertations on "What the hell are you thinking?" from anyone. I am really not looking for any thrill of risk or jeopardy to safety. I'm here to learn. Of all the personalities I've run across in my newfound awareness of s/p's (very new), its just that I am most familiar with the personality you portray as one of 'them'. I always lol when I say such - reminds me of my prejudiced father whom called people of various ethnicities "them" & how it disgusted me to hear such ignorance. So pardon the use of the term here, I only mean to describe your inclusion in a group of individuals labeled (whether by self or otherwise) as such. Others have not been as open as I'd like about my interest in understanding from your perspective versus what 'they' THINK is root causes/thoughts.
Complicated. Its not paranoia, at least not in its basic form.

Emails too obvious, in my opinion. Also don't imbibe in social networks on the web nor apps. I hit various sites a few times a week though....

or maybe pick a youtube vid and we can blog there?

I understand if u don't wish to pursue outside of email tho. I'll still keep a readin on your site here as time allows.

-Ma'am ;)

Anonymous said...

I have a suggestion for a topic, if I may be so bold: (One I have pondered in past)

True Psycopath Fears or Frustrations: Commonalities?

For all the risk taking, dangerous & generally considered 'unacceptable' beliefs and behaviors, I also found some of his fears or superstitions illogical. fex: 1. He was deathly afraid of flying - in 30 years, he only got on a plane twice (out of absolute necessity) and both times was about as anxious as I'd ever see him. Both times, ended up self medicating with Xanax and alcohol to knock himself out for the experience. He's got a Johnny depp look/way about him and danger used to be his middle name. Jumped off bridges and should not have lived, drove cars off docks into the water, would jump from building to building in the Bronx when a teen and 'ride' fire escape ladders just for fun. So why be afraid of a commercial flight? I wanted to go skydive once and he gave me this aggravated look and said "I see no reason to jump out of a perfectly functional plane". 2. The mention of the word suicide evoked genuine vocal frustration when otherwise was not much of a 'talker' and only rarely excitable. Even just the word pissed him off? 3. Folklore superstitions such as walking under a ladder. He kept his superstitious beliefs hidden, but after all those years, I came to learn he really WAS cautious to not walk under ladders, break mirrors, etc. . . I mean just silly I thought? 4. Littering - he would make it a point to let you know how 'bad' you were if you threw your cig butt out the window of the car. The floorboards of his SUV were always a shithole - a garbage - because God forbid he throw anything out the car window (and I guess too lazy to use a trash can after the fact until it was ridiculously cluttered w/garbage). Not that I am a huge abuser of littering, but hey, I DO throw my butts out the window, sorry. Big deal to him - littering. He'd swindle a few grand out of an old man, but heaven forbid he litter.
5. Going NEAR his food plate - ever: I remember when we first started dating, only a couple weeks and were out to dinner. I'd warmed up immediately to him and thought nothing of asking if I could try whatever it was he had ordered. I was holding my fork and distinctly remember that 'glare' that made me feel like a moron for even asking. He had a look that spoke words, as if to say, "Don't even THINK about coming near my plate with that fork of yours". Many years later I was told by his father that while he was incarcerated at a youth jail, someone tried to take something off his plate and he stabbed the guy's hand to the table with his fork. He got another year of time for the assault. But C'mon, isn't it illogical to think that way after being 'with' someone decades? I'm bold I guess? Because even though I knew it pissed him off, I made a point to do it to him every now and again just to remind him that I wasn't afraid of him - and yeah, sometimes I really wanted to taste from his selection. The year before the final arrest, our youngest son did it to him at the dinner table. I wanted to laugh, but knew better to set a poor example. He just pushed back his chair and left the table - food and all. I imagine if I were not present, he would not have left the the incident at merely leaving the table.

There were a few absurd things. can't think of them right now. Just odd minor things (in my perception) that bothered him amidst a life lived that otherwise had no regard for moral codes/ethics. He had his own code of ethics that never changed over time. However, his ability to impersonate society's code did improve after the age of say, 38.

Wondering if there is any common ground in your fears that might seem illogical to NT's considering your nature?

Anonymous said...

"I wish there would be a common procedure that allowed a patient to decide up front if s/he wants to follow and see everything that happens, or perhaps wants to get it filmed so they can take a DVD home with them as a memory token"

I did this for a friend. I filmed her giving birth from the doc's p o v. I would have filmed the other stuff - the after birth coming out, and the stitching her up - but (big surprise) they didn't want a record of THAT. I thought it was awesome.

Zhawq said...


it makes total sense what you say about blood pressure and safety procedures in regard to possible issues. I could see it right away, don't know why I've found it so hard to understand. When I wrote the article I didn't think it through much, I just wrote it as I felt it. I've always had a problem with getting 'No!', when I know I've made it obvious that they should oblige. I guess I've just been too annoyed to think it through more thoroughly.

Ma'am, I understand perfectly well your position, and I like that you have the combination of high intelligent understanding and ability to execute accordingly with elegant certainty. - The drive for knowledge is a strong factor that often can derail once's navigational skills, I've seen the results first hand on a few occasions - it even landed me a prison time once (or was it twice? Thrice? Nah, twice or... something). :)

I have a Youtube account, I use it as an extension of Psychopathic Writings and have a little following there already. I hope to be creating some videos in the future (if I can find a way to do so without disclosing my identity, that is), I'd really like to do that. Create some thorough, effective informational and educational video series.

Ah, the 5 gifts was a game? I thought it was a situation where your ex had one of those fits, thinking: "This is too boring and I've had it, my friends/workers/wife-and-kids are too ungrateful, don't appreciate me, this calls for a little action. Let's see if I can make them say nice things about me while they're annoyed because I've been a little hard on them lately and think I'm just absolutely horrible!". Scrabble can be fun, and it's a good exercise for the kids to train their ability to enter all kinds of mindset thinking. It's very hard for kids to find good things about someone they're angry with, even if it's someone they have lots of fun with at other times and who's their dad. It trains their ability to see things from any perspective under all kinds of circumstances, and in this case it especially trains their ability to find positives when they originally think there're none.

The following questions that you ask are a very central kind of issue to psychopaths. I've been trying to figure out how I can write about these things without crossing my own lines.
From your description I can tell that you probably know that this is especially difficult for me.
But I'll find a way to describe and explain these things, because I do want to do it because I know it's important for the whole picture, and without it no one will really understand what it is that makes us tick. So yeah, I'll get around to it. I will!...

I'd say some things about it to you since you've touched on some of these aspects, and... well, you happened to... uh... well, wow! That's unusual,...

But okay, I'll say one thing: The plane thingy, that's clearly a phobia. I'm glad you told me this, because it doesn't happen often that psychopathic individuals find out about other psychopaths' phobias. We're VERY protective in that regard, so much so that most of us can go through our whole lives without anybody ever knowing we have a phobia - other psychopaths included. Hell, it's a weakness after all!

I'd say more, but... maybe in a Youtube message. For starters. Yeah, this is actually really hard. Doesn't make it easier that some of the things you mention... uhm... well, how can I say... I've "heard" of them before... Somewhere. Well, hehe...!

Zhawq said...

Ah, about the Christ Representative. Lol. Yeah, I don't know why I do that sometimes. You should see Blackster, he's much, much worse than me! ;). He told me he still visits that place with ireland and Sophie and so on from time to time. :D
Says he goes there when he feels like being a prick (something I of course would never do!) without having to make an effort, because there's someone there he think it's incredibly hilarious to peck at. Last I heard the person had left because everybody else pecked at them too. Hehe.
Don't know if Blackster started it though. :D - He's such a child sometimes, not at all refined like me! I'd never pick at a victimized AsPD'er! (poor thing) ;D

No, what I find funny about these modern Christians is that it's so easy to prove to them that they're full of issues, that they're at least as much sinners as those they try to show off to, this guy's every word told me right away what his own issues were.
But there's more to it: If he had given this a chance, he could've come out of it much stronger, with a self awareness he could never have dreamed of, and if he really was truly a believer in Christ, I'd even have strengthened his position in that regard too. That's how it works if a true Christian takes up an invitation such as mine from an opponent of his god.

Every time these puny sissies decline such an offer, not only I and others who read our exchange know they're fake Christians, their god knows it too! And that's something they'll feel in the time to come after they've left with their tail between their legs. It's unavoidable, and I'll not claim to not have a certain sadistic delight in knowing this.

I could've become a religious guru, a Christian religious guru at that, if I wanted to. I dabbled in that kind of thing as young man, and I did unusually well. So well in fact it became intolerably easy for me to make people submit to me. That's how I know so much about how modern Christians' minds work, and I can read them like I read a street sign. - Anyway, I can see it's silly, but at least it's "innocent" fun, no? *S*

Anonymous said...

lol. Damn shame you have a hard time controlling those impulses to hurt people - you're actually a quite funny fella.

Hell, I'll help you some more if you wanna know some other 'odd quirks' of him:
- He would NEVER ride carnival rides. When I was 16, we went to a county fair together. He was performing there in a band. But he knew I'd wanted to go on some rides with my 'bo'. You know, like any 16 yr old girl would wanna do? I might be an empath, but I LOVE rides: the bigger, faster and badder, the better (no pun intended here). But he was procrastinating. . . . . then he started this assinine argument over nothing and felt he'd better just take off w/friends. "I think we both need to cool off and get some space" he said. wtf? the argument was silly and after all, I let him win it? It was only after the next year, at the carnival again, when I realized he was evasive about the rides, I got an idea. Idea cemented on a trip to Six Flags. Nope, there was no ride riding for that cat. But he'd graciously tell me he'd wait for me to ride - there was always something that was bothering him why he couldn't get on a ride. When I questioned him on the fear he got FURIOUS! While I found it cute this oh-so-macho guy was actually scared to enjoy rides, he reminded me how he despised being made fun of. And I heeded his advice when I was a young'un.

No, he never touched me in a negative way physically other than a few pushes at young ages. Of all his women (and my God, there were too many to keep track of over the years), to my knowledge, I am the only one he never laid a hand on.

To this day, as aware as i might've been (or not, ha-ha) or have become, I have absolutely no clue as to why? Sure as hell was not love. Nor respect. Dunno? Don't really care other than I suspect he knew for all my meek and mild ways, I was not one to lay a hand on.

You see, I can be pushed too. I think he knew, somehow, that if he laid a hand on me, it'd be the first and last time .... and face it, I had become too precious a commodity time and time again. Always said I wished he beat the tar outta me just once. Certainly the physical beating would've healed better and faster than the other wounds he gave me. I guess the 'other' beatings he gave me gave him more sustained pleasure?

Haven't spoken to him in what? 7 months now and can finally say "OVER IT". Last time I saw him in jail I even thought he was quite ugly - Halleluia!

I have to say I find a certain amount of guilty irony that . . . well . . . . last laugh and all. I'll leave it at that ;)

Lemme know if you want some more. Just remember, some of them are just downright illogical - silly at best.

And yeah, plz be my guest at your innocent fun like w/the Christ Rep. Lord knows its surely a preferable option for your activity over some others that might interest you - from my standpoint at least, lol. Have at it, sir!


Zhawq said...

Ah, ma'am,

How could I do this? I didn't get my last response to you posted!??

And now I can't find it. I'll have to write a new one. - It would still be preferable if somehow we could take it somewhere else. I've eventually become afflicted by the rampant Internet Flu: Spamming, trolling and flaming. And I see it as my responsibility - as well as my wish - to not subject my readers and friends to this kind of thing.

I'll see if I can think of some kind of alternative to public board posting.


a said...

It's simple, really; "normal" people who are interested in the way our bodies work spend many years studying, and then working hard like bastards, helping people.
Most surgeons have reduced levels of empathy, it helps them do their job well, but they are still self-sacrificing in terms of workaholism, and also, they have the deeply ingrained sense of morality (vast majority, but of course, there are psychopaths and sociopaths amongst them too).

Somehow, I am not sure that you would ever sacrifice yourself so much. That is why, you don't get to see what you want to see.
That kind of knowledge is a privilege, something you have to earn, and to prove that you won't misuse it to hurt people.

ps. If a person is diagnosed with a personality disorder (especially of the "bad" group, antisocial, histrionic, borderline) in medical school or as a doctor, they are kicked out. It's necessary to keep the public safe because to the PDs, they are the most important, and that kind of attitude is just not useful in medicine. We work to make people better, not to satisfy our own blood and schadenfreude urges.