Dr. Robert Hare writes ('Without Conscience'):
And:
The words he use are typical for how many so called victims describe psychopaths, but non-victimized people describe it in the same manner, though perhaps generally with slightly less dramatic words.
An example is how author James Clarke in 'Last Rampage' describes a convicted murderer named Gary Tyson:
Oddly, this is almost word to next what a very few people have said about me. I'm happy to be able to say that it has happened only on a very few occasions that I have been described that way, and usually people remember quite different things about me.
Another description by a "victim" is much more like how people typically see me. Again, from 'Without Conscience':
From 'Echoes in the Darkness' by Joseph Wambaugh:
This comes closest to the way my eyes and my gaze is most often described. I hear it so often that I'm inclined to think it's likely to be how people really see me, and it fits well with how I intend them to see me.
As I've mentioned, psychopaths are not all alike, and intelligence level differs. Most who are familiar with psychopaths have met the simple, petty thieves types who have no self understanding and who walks like elephants all over the place (I'm often surprised at how these folk manage to succeed at anything at all).
I would like to finish this article with a few words of caution:
Psychopaths, like other people, are not all alike, not in how we look at people, and not in how we behave or what we like or don't like, etc. We're different people.
What's more, neurotypicals - those we call 'normal people' - can have a peculiar stare as well!...
Sometimes when I'm talking with someone, exchanging courtesies, I notice that even though they smile and say nice things and are clearly very interested in me, they have this unblinking gaze that follows my every move. I imagine some people would feel uncomfortable when somebody looks at them like this. In a way it's not unlike the way I sometimes look at people. The difference is only that they make sure to signal good will, and I sometimes do the opposite, or I don't signal anything. But I generally have the impression that those who look at me like this are merely being very anxious. It's not a controlling or soulless stare, it's a slightly frightened stare. I have no idea if it is me personally who make them uncomfortable or uneasy, or if it's how they generally feel when they meet new people. It's most likely a little bit of both.
So don't try to label or judge people by their stare or lack of stare... Because, it's basically not possible and you won't succeed. The way someone stares at you is not in itself useful as a basis for determining whether s/he is a psychopathic individual. You need to take the whole context of the situation in which you notice it into consideration.
.....
I didn't want to use Ted Bundy as an example of the psychopathic stare, but he remains the best example that I can find without having to do extensive searches, and I'm late. I really didn't want to include him, for he annoys me, I don't like the fact that he does look like me as I looked on that picture when I was 16, and as I no doubt still look from time to time. I didn't want to include him because he happens to be a serial killer, and that is far from 'typical' for a psychopath.
But now that I've chosen to use him anyway, I'll add that he didn't always have this slightly awkward stiff gaze. It seems to be a kind of gaze that pops up from time to time.
Here is a picture of Gary Tison. I can't see anything odd about his eyes or the way he looks at the camera. Maybe others can see it. Robert Hare above writes about reasons for maintaining close eye contact. And I think this is pretty much all it is: Remaining close eye contact. There's generally nothing special about my eyes or other psychopaths' eyes, but we use our eyes differently, and that's what creates the illusion of a "cold" or "emotionsless" stare. I've included the picture of Gary Tison to have at least something other than Ted Bundy.
.....
I can pretty much tell when I have 'the stare' now, but I have to be focusing on myself or I won't notice. That's when others may see it, but mostly there're other things going on, I'm talking, gesticulating, etc., so my stare isn't what they'll remember. Of course, once in a while someone does, clinicians especially will of course make note of it.
___
Many people find it difficult to deal with intense, emotionless, or "predatory" stare of the psychopath. Normal people maintain close eye contact with others for a variety of reasons, but the fixated stare of the psychopath is more prelude to self-gratification and the exercise of power than simple interest or empathic caring.
And:
Some people respond to the emotionsless stare of the psychopath with considerable discomfort. Normal people maintain close eye contact with others for a variety of reasons, but the fixated stare of the psychopath is more a prelude to self-gratification and the exercise of power than simple interest or emmpathic caring. ... Some people respond to the emotionless stare of the psychopath, with considerable discomfort, almost as if they feel like potential prey in the presence of a predator.
The words he use are typical for how many so called victims describe psychopaths, but non-victimized people describe it in the same manner, though perhaps generally with slightly less dramatic words.
An example is how author James Clarke in 'Last Rampage' describes a convicted murderer named Gary Tyson:
But Gary's most striking physical feature--the thing most people noticed and never forgot--was his deep-set, expressionless ... eyes. It was as if his eyes had no connection with any emotion he expressed. Whatever his mood--whether he was angry, jovial, or anything in between--his eyes remained the same. Empty. It was impossible to tell what Gary was actually thinking or feeling looking at his eyes ... His stare was riveting, unsettling, with a mlign intensity. What people remembered most about Gary were those cold, hard eyes.
Oddly, this is almost word to next what a very few people have said about me. I'm happy to be able to say that it has happened only on a very few occasions that I have been described that way, and usually people remember quite different things about me.
Another description by a "victim" is much more like how people typically see me. Again, from 'Without Conscience':
I found it difficult to look at his eyes because they confused me. I didn't know what was behind them and they didn't tell me what he was thinking or what his intentions were.
From 'Echoes in the Darkness' by Joseph Wambaugh:
His gaze was so intense it could transfix, so his eyes were variously described as "poetic", "icy" or "hypnotic", depending upon his moods.
This comes closest to the way my eyes and my gaze is most often described. I hear it so often that I'm inclined to think it's likely to be how people really see me, and it fits well with how I intend them to see me.
As I've mentioned, psychopaths are not all alike, and intelligence level differs. Most who are familiar with psychopaths have met the simple, petty thieves types who have no self understanding and who walks like elephants all over the place (I'm often surprised at how these folk manage to succeed at anything at all).
I would like to finish this article with a few words of caution:
Psychopaths, like other people, are not all alike, not in how we look at people, and not in how we behave or what we like or don't like, etc. We're different people.
What's more, neurotypicals - those we call 'normal people' - can have a peculiar stare as well!...
Sometimes when I'm talking with someone, exchanging courtesies, I notice that even though they smile and say nice things and are clearly very interested in me, they have this unblinking gaze that follows my every move. I imagine some people would feel uncomfortable when somebody looks at them like this. In a way it's not unlike the way I sometimes look at people. The difference is only that they make sure to signal good will, and I sometimes do the opposite, or I don't signal anything. But I generally have the impression that those who look at me like this are merely being very anxious. It's not a controlling or soulless stare, it's a slightly frightened stare. I have no idea if it is me personally who make them uncomfortable or uneasy, or if it's how they generally feel when they meet new people. It's most likely a little bit of both.
So don't try to label or judge people by their stare or lack of stare... Because, it's basically not possible and you won't succeed. The way someone stares at you is not in itself useful as a basis for determining whether s/he is a psychopathic individual. You need to take the whole context of the situation in which you notice it into consideration.
.....
I didn't want to use Ted Bundy as an example of the psychopathic stare, but he remains the best example that I can find without having to do extensive searches, and I'm late. I really didn't want to include him, for he annoys me, I don't like the fact that he does look like me as I looked on that picture when I was 16, and as I no doubt still look from time to time. I didn't want to include him because he happens to be a serial killer, and that is far from 'typical' for a psychopath.
But now that I've chosen to use him anyway, I'll add that he didn't always have this slightly awkward stiff gaze. It seems to be a kind of gaze that pops up from time to time.
Here is a picture of Gary Tison. I can't see anything odd about his eyes or the way he looks at the camera. Maybe others can see it. Robert Hare above writes about reasons for maintaining close eye contact. And I think this is pretty much all it is: Remaining close eye contact. There's generally nothing special about my eyes or other psychopaths' eyes, but we use our eyes differently, and that's what creates the illusion of a "cold" or "emotionsless" stare. I've included the picture of Gary Tison to have at least something other than Ted Bundy.
.....
I can pretty much tell when I have 'the stare' now, but I have to be focusing on myself or I won't notice. That's when others may see it, but mostly there're other things going on, I'm talking, gesticulating, etc., so my stare isn't what they'll remember. Of course, once in a while someone does, clinicians especially will of course make note of it.
___


16 comments:
Notice with the eyes of most serial killers, serial rapists, the eyes turn away when they stare forward. There is a definate deadness to the eyes that normal people just don't have.
Good examples of the stare.
http://www.local10.com/2009/0617/19778258_240X135.jpg
http://www.freewebs.com/thebtksite/dennis_rader_1973.jpg
http://www.nndb.com/people/608/000071395/watts1-sized.jpg
http://cbsla.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/michael_lallana_booking.jpg
The eyes 'turn away'?
I'm sure it's true when you say there's a 'deadness' to some psychopaths' eyes that normal people don't have, for you're certainly not alone about finding this to be the case.
I have to assume it's me who for some reason just can't see it. Maybe the reason is that I can't feel those emotions that I speculate to play a role in how normal people's eyes look.
And to me normal people's eyes and psychopathic people's eyes look the same. The only difference I can see is in the different kinds of situations that they'll each tend to use more intensive stares or hold an eye contact longer.
- Psychopaths will also tend to more often do both of these with people they've never met before or who they know only briefly, whereas most normal people save the intense and close eye contact for people they know intimately or people they're somewhat well acquainted with.
Thank you for the links. I'll make sure to check them out!... '^L^,
I'd love to read your blog. ( Your site look awesome! )
Many things sounds so familiar..
Some people have said to me that I have that intensive, frightening stare sometimes. I hate it, because it frighten others and push them away ( sometimes it's a good thing. ), and love it, because I can use it, when I want to.( and because it frighten others ;) )They also keep saying me that I am a psychopath or "crazy", ( I have a little problems with anger...etc.)
but I'm not sure about that..
I afraid I'm too shy. :)
( At least people think I am. I just think they are stupid. Because I'm a quiet person it doesn't mean that I am shy, does it? I don't fear anything. I just don't like to talk to people all the time..That's all. )
Hope I'll find the answers some day.
I will keep reading your blog anyway. Bye!
-maya-
p.s.( English is not my first language, btw.. So, if someone can't read this.. Sorry for your loss. ;) )
Does anyone notice the glee in bundy's stare ? It's like he's been given a task no one knows about, and no one else but him knows exactly the way to solve it; he's getting a private rush from it, taking pleasure in the secret that he has the answers but no one around him does. He's like a covert little smartypants.
Anon 6:25,
People believe in stereotypes, and that can be annoying. I've experimented with being 'quiet', and I could hardly believe the reactions I got. Some people actually thought I was slightly unintelligent, because "He doesn't say anything! So obviously he's got nothing to say".
The stare can be controlled. If you're already quiet of nature, you have the opportunity to pay more attention to when you tend to use the stare unknowingly. You can see it by people's reactions.
When that happens, excuse yourself, keep that stare (maybe look down while doing it) and walk to the rest room and see how you look in the mirror. Then work on changing it, practice 'relaxed' looks. It is actually possible to have a strong, confident look while being relaxed too. It just takes practice.
Don't be afraid to practice! Even neurotypicals do it, they just don't talk much about it, and perhaps they also don't do it quite as much as we - and other neurological minorities - do it.
Bella,
Does anyone notice the glee in bundy's stare ? It's like he's been given a task no one knows about, and no one else but him knows exactly the way to solve it; he's getting a private rush from it, taking pleasure in the secret that he has the answers but no one around him does.
This is actually a very good, and even almost precise, description.
I know it because I have had the very same expression myself many, many times - especially when I was younger.
When I saw him the first time, I read Ted Bundy as if it was myself I was looking at. And that's part of what I find so annoying about him. But even more it's because I can see the incredibly stupid mistakes he made.
He had everything going for him, even after he had so many kills in his past and were caught. He escaped not once, but twice, and both fucking times he blew it! He could've stopped killing but was so infatuated with himself, how poor him had been wronged and scorned by a girl and proven he was not to be denied. He was the type who gets spoiled by power and that was his undoing. Even so he gets an extra chance not once, but twice, and yet he blew it! That stupid, at least, I am definitely not!
And what's more, I am also not a serial killer or a spoiled fuck who runs amock on every woman he sees because poor him has been scorned by a woman once.
No, I'm not anything like him, but I can see through him because of certain aspects he had in common with me - and with many, many psychopathic people out there. It's not like it's rare, really. Only the way he used (abused) those traits is rare!
But I'm ranting...
He's like a covert little smartypants.
Yep. Well said.
Thanks for your input!... '^L^,
(I truly cannot abide him!)
"No, I'm not anything like him, but I can see through him because of certain aspects he had in common with me"
Doubt it, there will only be one Ted bundy. It's easy to sit on a blog and say things but to actually cause all that mayhem whilst captivating the world with your enigma takes a different animal, the guy had adonis dna.
Thanks for your comment, Zhawq.
And your advice too.
I think I practice my facial expressions almost every time I look in the mirror, but it has always been just some kind of routine to me..
But maybe I should practice more.. I don't know. At least, it would be fun.
And yes, it really annoying me too, when people think I am stupid or something, just because I don't talk much.. But good thing is, they trust you more, when they think you are dumb and "harmless". And that's fine with me..
Anyway, I got a whole lifetime to show them, how wrong they were.. If I want to. ;) But in this moment, I don't feel I need to prove anything to anybody.
-Maya-
Seriously, what would/do you do if you encounter a person that may be more enlightened about psychopathy/sociopathy, and can "smell" a psychopath coming at them from a distance. What would you do if that person, in response to your psychopathic stare, just laughed in your face and told you that you needed more practice for your stare expression?
Agh. Can't stop reading. The so-called stare is, I think, little more than a side-effect of not feeling anxiety as normal people do. Most people can;t handle direct eye contact for long unless the circumstances have been relaxed to a level of trust were constant eye contact feels comfortable or, conversely, situations where phony 'direct eye contact' is de rigeur. Job interviews, shmooze parties, et cetera.
If s/p's feel minimal anticipatory fear, and fear is (as I believe) the primary reason most folks don't stare ('nice people don't stare', our mothers told us), then an s/p would feel little reason not to stare.
This, in turn connotes power not through anything reptilian or hypnotic but simply because the lack of fear expressed by such a frank and unapologetic stare is itself somewhat overpowering.
Assuming you are truly a psychopath, Zhawq, (and the internet being what it is, I remain skeptical; lots of people out there pretending to be anything but who they really are), I'm sure you've heard more times than you can remember people saying, 'Stop staring at me!' or, more often the case, 'What the fuck are *you* looking at!' This is one our most common responses to a frank gaze.
Another is to look away and avoid eye contact.
A third is to return the stare, hard, usually with our head slightly cocked, and our forehead wrinkled with disdain in sort of an unvoiced WTF r u lookin at!
When one considers that psychopaths are reported to have difficulty recognizing fearful facial emotions, it is easy to see how they would keep staring at someone, not catching the cues. ON the other hand, psychopaths allegedly have about the same skills in recognizing angry facial expressions, so more assertive and aggressive discouragements of their staring would be recognized and usually shunned: angry people are not good targets for manipulation except to focus their anger on some target.
The one person I've known who I'm fairly sure was s/p-ish did have a frank expression in his eyes, but it was not cold and affectless, just direct and penetrating, something he disarmed with a great smile on a very handsome face atop a terrifically athletic build about 6'4" tall. Girls fell over for him, and I often saw him verbally abuse them in a superficially playful way that nonetheless conveyed a lack of concern for their feelings. The difference between felt but concealed contempt and expressed contempt (however felt or not) is enormous.
Emotionally, it's the same between a loaded gun with the safety on and a loaded gun with the safety off aimed at your heart and fired.
Assuming, again, you're genuinely a self-perceived and clinically diagnosed psychopath, I'll state that this business of The Stare is at least partly a legend based on self-aggrandizement. Indirect aggrandizement by shrinks who write books and make lecture tours as experts on psychopath, and direct aggrandizement by psychopaths being told their stare discomfits people and reading in books advising people how to 'avoid the hypnotically malign snakelike stare of the psychopath'.
But we humans are so susceptible to aggrandizement. Everyone prefers to be more than less powerful. Probably one reason why s/p's focus so much on it is that they feel less need than most to accept power's counterpoint: responsibility.
Listen, I'm a real life Lisa Simpson (meaning I'm the only person in my entire immediate family who has a conscience). When psychos eyes are normal then his stare is hypnotic and intrusive.Psychopaths do have 14 different pairs of eyes that victims of long term encounters with psychos can see. Matt Groening the creator of The Simpsons draws them (the same bizarre eyes) I see on psychos everyday.
Groovy observation, Anon. I remember Groenig's breakthrough alt newspaper comic strip: Life in Hell. The title almost says it all, yes?
Real life Lisa Simpson. Wow. That is a fascinating perspective. If you share more, I will be very interested.
Wonderful blog you have running here. I'm interested in the subject...
There're a few things I wonder though.
-Have you ever had the 'need' to protect someone?if it suits your interests?
-Can a PS help a specific person, if yes, why?
-i know about the lying, but, isn't more interesting if one gives 'hints' of what's happening?
-the thrill of being a hunt and hunted ar rhe same time, wouldnt that be more exiting?
-Do you give straight answers ever? when a direct question is aimed at you..
-Can PS be in 'denial'?
Many PS bond with someone, how does it work? where the need of living with someone relay?
-How do you react if confronted with 'facts' by a 'target' ?
-What's a PS stand about racism?
Many questions... I know... take it this way, they may contribute to your blog and to your interests
Thank you in advance
SameOldMe
Never been diagnosed but I do believe me and my whole family are at least psychopath-ish. When I was young and much more dangerous, I always had problems getting people into friendly conversations. People would talk friendly to others but would clam up around me. I found I was speaking too directly. Normal people need foreplay, conversational lubricant... Hello, How are you?, Nice day if it don't rain. This just became a habit It DOES work to disarm folks a bit.
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Mark Dadds, a researcher into childhood psychopathy, has been doing a lot of research into patterns of gaze in psychopathic kids.
Specifically, both psychopaths and people with amygdala damage have difficulty recognizing fear. In people with amygdala damage, fear recognition can be improved by making a special effort to look at the person's eyes - turns out this is true for psychopaths as well. And further research shows that when spontaneously trying to recognize facial expressions, child psychopaths tend to pay less attention to the eyes.
So maybe part of what seems odd about psychopathic gaxe is not making eye contact. Or rather, having learnt that people expect eye contact, making eye contact but not paying attention to the eyes, like what anonymous says about the eyes 'turning away'.
References:
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/189/3/280.full
http://www2.psy.unsw.edu.au/Users/MDadds/Publications/Dadds,%20El%20Masry%20et%20al%202008.pdf
Do female psychopaths also have the stare?
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