Tuesday, March 8, 2011

The Psychopath Gender. (Part I)



What is the Psychopath's relationship with gender? Do we identify specifically with our gender - the gender we were born with? Lately I've been thinking about an idea that I tentatively call:
'The Psychopath Gender'.
Here is what ...

A Reader writes:

When I was a small child I was for a while thought to be autistic. It was during my first three years when I was kept in an institution for infants because the state had taken me from my mother who was alone and very young and poor at the time she got me.
Some of the symptoms that led them to think I was autistic was my lack of eye contact. Another was that I was reported to be 'rocking', another typical autistic feature.

As I grew older the autism theory was abandoned, and I was merely a 'bad' child.
I learned to talk late, but that wasn't so strange. Id been spending my first well over 3 years among infants at between a few months to little more than 1 years old. There were no one to learn from. But once I got a pair of parents I learned fast and I soon had a vocabulary that in many ways equaled that of adults.

I was very bright, had a high IQ - which I was never told though - and I was told my tone of voice was flat and without "music".

I was always a fearless child, I always thought and felt I could do anything I wanted, and I got away with a lot. I was also what you could call a "charmer". I was very charming, a trait that has kept with me throughout my life.

Since as long back as I can remember I've been attracted to all the things that to mainstream people is viewed as 'evil'. I loved the idea of torturing others, and I would soon find my own little ways of doing so.

Now I'm a girl, so I couldn't get away with as much physical stuff as the boy could, but I felt I might as well have been a boy and for a while during my early puberty I would dress like a boy and do whatever the heck I wanted in a boyish style. I felt I could have been a great leader of any gang or corporation if I had been a boy or - later - a man.

It wasn't that I felt envious of men, not at all. There're a lot of benefits to being a woman, and I play them all with virtuous knack for what affects people how.

When I turned 19 I uh... killed a guy. Strictly speaking it was self defense, but between you and me, it could just as well have not been self defense.
During those days I had played a lot with the idea of getting away with murder. I say 'during those days', but in reality it was a recurring thought of mine.

Since I was very soon to be hated by my step parents and my neighborhood I hit the streets by the time I was 13 or 14 and I lived for some years as a prostitute.
I also became addicted to heroine. It was most of all lack of knowledge that got me into that, for had I know how addicted that shit makes you - physically speaking, I mean - I'd have never touched it. I'd have tried it, yes, for I always wanted to try everything. The more dangerous and the worse it's reputation for being dangerous, the more I wanted it.

I've always been that kind of person who leads and plays and manipulates everybody I get in touch with. I tune on to weakness like a bee to a sugar-laden flower. And I must admit, as much as I like to help out if someone is of use to me and I somehow respect them, just as much do I love to help bring about their downfall. Most often they never realize it was me who made things happen that way. I come off as very 'trustworthy', and I think it's part of my being female that helps me project that image even stronger.


There was a period where I wondered why it was that I'd never fallen in love with anybody. Was I perhaps Lesbian?
I set out to find out if that was it. I went to an area in town where Lesbians hung out and soon became one of the inner circle. That year I was introduced to the country's main Lesbian Radio and TV-channel and was put in charge of covering northern Europe's equivalent to Woodstock, a recurring event every summer that takes place on some vast fields situated some 50 miles away from the capital.

It was the only time I went to that festival, and I had a great time. I loved the way I could wander about amongst the world famous names and there was SPACE! No being crammed up like canned prunes in a slimy foundation of mud.
I've also over the years played a lot with the idea of creating and perfecting a "dual-gender" image, a la David Bowie's famed Ziggy Stardust - though Anne Lenox from Eurythmics would fit me.better as a biological female.

___

20 comments:

ResCogitans said...

this story simply does not ring true with the articulation and style with which it was written.

I've always been that kind of person who leads and plays and manipulates everybody I get in touch with...
...it's part of my being female that helps me project that image even stronger.


they admit they manipulate everyone they get in touch with, and then this woman who got into trouble at school and lived on the street from age 13 is suddenly au fait using the subjunctive. other bad grammar in the article aside, the whole picture just doesn't ring true.

TheNotablePath said...

I couldn't give a toss about the story, true or not. It's been done to death in forms of media, and a few bitches who've met a young casket.

When you think you have everyone wrapped around your finger, you fail to notice the noose around your neck.

Zhawq's question however did interest me.

I don't consider myself feminine or masculine. I've weight lifted for ages, played sports, got in more fights than I can count, but I've never fancied myself a manly man, nor had some odd sense of sexual pride, let alone misogyny.

I just am. Me.

It all seems like foolishness, these guys who beat their chests, and harrumph, or take pride in the worm between their legs.

On top of that I'm fairly asexual. More times than not, sex or masturbation seems more like a bodily need such as eating or breathing, than something I'm psychologically driven to do.

Anonymous said...

TNP,
Is there anything that inevitably causes you to become sexually aroused? Like a visual or aural cue?

HavenNyx said...

I don't know if gender orientation has anything at all to do with psychopathy. Millions of people in this country struggle with sexual/gender identity and they are obvs not psychopaths.

The bilateral normative gender typing is an imposed cultural division. It is not necessarily a natural one. Questioning where you fall when you don't fit a societal norm is natural, but not necessarily a trait of the psychopath. People look to find a label to put on things because it's easier to grasp instead of simply being who they are. Personally, I am gender fluid and identify neutral if asked.

Seems like (if this story is true at all) that if there is a question of orientation it is coincidental with the psychopathy and not a product of it.

Zhawq said...

Res,

I see what you mean.
I can only say that I've been corresponding with this girl for a period. I don't publish stuff off the bat, and honestly, my impression to start with was not unlike yours. But I changed my mind once I began talking to her via Instant Messenger.

In my eyes she's genuine. I even had her back a few things, that I initially found questionable, with photo copies.

Obviously I can't speak for everything she says, but I arrived at the conclusion it was believable enough (when viewed from a perspective that has the extra background of her that I've achieved) for me to decide to go ahead and publish it.


Notable,

"When you think you have everyone wrapped around your finger, you fail to notice the noose around your neck."

That part at least I can confirm from first hand experience, lol.


"I just am. Me."

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel too. As a teen I actually played - but it WAS play - with letting older men thinking I was a girl. I had a very androgynous look and was considered a 'pretty boy'.
If I hadn't had that wild side coupled with my flat affect I am absolutely certain I'd be someone's bitch when I've been in jail.

What you describe above the quoted line is almost word to next what I've seen on two occasions a female respectively sociopath and psychopath say, and I've come upon a description by a male (self proclaimed) sociopath saying the same thing with only a few minor differences.

One more thing I've noticed, is that female sociopaths/psychopaths will not feel ashamed by lying about their gender, calling themselves male - not because they're ashamed of being female in the least, but because it's simply easier and makes it more likely that others will respect what they may have to say.

I've known one such woman personally who posed as a guy on the Internet for 2 years without anybody but myself (and lately MrBlake) knowing the truth.

What that kind of thing shows more than anything is how gender is seen by the mainstream population. As for the sociopath community there may be variations in that regard, though I see tendencies towards it being less of an issue - yet females often have to prove themselves more. - In the psychopath community, which by the very definition is very small and specific knowledge thereof therefore also very limited, it seems there's no difference in how people teat each other (but maybe I'm reading a little bit of my own individual mentality into the picture here).

.....

Zhawq said...

Res,

I see what you mean.
I can only say that I've been corresponding with this girl for a period. I don't publish stuff off the bat, and honestly, my impression to start with was not unlike yours. But I changed my mind once I began talking to her via Instant Messenger.

In my eyes she's genuine. I even had her back a few things, that I initially found questionable, with photo copies.

Obviously I can't speak for everything she says, but I arrived at the conclusion it was believable enough (when viewed from a perspective that has the extra background of her that I've achieved) for me to decide to go ahead and publish it.


Notable,

"When you think you have everyone wrapped around your finger, you fail to notice the noose around your neck."

That part at least I can confirm from first hand experience, lol.


"I just am. Me."

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel too. As a teen I actually played - but it WAS play - with letting older men thinking I was a girl. I had a very androgynous look and was considered a 'pretty boy'.
If I hadn't had that wild side coupled with my flat affect I am absolutely certain I'd be someone's bitch when I've been in jail.

What you describe above the quoted line is almost word to next what I've seen on two occasions a female respectively sociopath and psychopath say, and I've come upon a description by a male (self proclaimed) sociopath saying the same thing with only a few minor differences.

One more thing I've noticed, is that female sociopaths/psychopaths will not feel ashamed by lying about their gender, calling themselves male - not because they're ashamed of being female in the least, but because it's simply easier and makes it more likely that others will respect what they may have to say.

I've known one such woman personally who posed as a guy on the Internet for 2 years without anybody but myself (and lately MrBlake) knowing the truth.

What that kind of thing shows more than anything is how gender is seen by the mainstream population. As for the sociopath community there may be variations in that regard, though I see tendencies towards it being less of an issue - yet females often have to prove themselves more. - In the psychopath community, which by the very definition is very small and specific knowledge thereof therefore also very limited, it seems there's no difference in how people teat each other (but maybe I'm reading a little bit of my own individual mentality into the picture here).

.....

Zhawq said...

.....

Notable:

"It all seems like foolishness, these guys who beat their chests, and harrumph, or take pride in the worm between their legs."

Indeed. Foolish for as far as it's about being superior to the opposite sex.

"On top of that I'm fairly asexual. More times than not, sex or masturbation seems more like a bodily need such as eating or breathing, than something I'm psychologically driven to do."

I take it you're not among those who are virtually incapable of having a regular orgasm., then.

And you know, what you describe is pretty much how I feel too.
I think that's part of the reason most women find me so attractive and likable when I choose them to be: For I never pressure them into doing anything, and even in periods where I'm a bit more to the sexual side (which depends a lot of the position of my partner) I still manage to make them the more needy ones.

I always get what I need. I can masturbate if that takes my fancy, and it doesn't necessarily have to be when I don't have a woman available.


HavenNyx:

"I don't know if gender orientation has anything at all to do with psychopathy. Millions of people in this country struggle with sexual/gender identity and they are obvs not psychopaths"

I'm not sure it pertains to Psychopath/Sociopathy either, I just noticed it's more dominant in this community.

However, I don't think that sociopaths/psychopaths struggle with their sexual identity at all. On the contrary they seem to find it easy to play on both the feminine and the masculine sides in themselves.

And this may be the difference between the mainstream empath and the Sociopathic/psychopathic personality.


"People look to find a label to put on things because it's easier to grasp instead of simply being who they are."


"Seems like (if this story is true at all) that if there is a question of orientation it is coincidental with the psychopathy and not a product of it."

Are you saying that you believe the correlations are merely accidental?

Personally I haven't decided for or against yet. But it does seem to me that psychopaths would be less affected by the Inborn traits that mark the female psychology and physiology.


"Personally, I am gender fluid and identify neutral if asked."

That's a smart approach in society as it is and probably will continue to be for a long time to come.

Anonymous said...

Zhawq is buffalo Bill.

HavenNyx said...

I wouldn't say it's accidental, but it doesn't mean there's a direct correlation. More like, in a given distribution of a population of any number/ group of people, this variant will present itself to a certain quantity regardless of what other traits these people may also carry.

TheNotablePath said...

Haven, I disagree.

I would agree that there is no correlation with someone who qualifies for ASPD (something like, 80% of the prison population via the DSM) in regards to an odd gender role.

However, I haven't talked to anyone who falls under the psychopath or sociopath spectrum that feels very feminine or masculine, when questioned. Most of the women seem very aggressive, and the males "sound" roughly the same, in how the present themselves.

On top of that, I've never heard anyone claim asexuality before out in the wild, and two or tree who had genuine gender identity disorder, to the extent of thinking they need the surgery (and haven't had it already). I have however met plenty of gay/lesbian/bisexuals though, who might be tempted.

It just seems suspect to me that most of us don't feel very attached to one end or the other on the gender spectrum.

Zhawq said...

"It just seems suspect to me that most of us don't feel very attached to one end or the other on the gender spectrum."

The question is if this is actually the case. Most don't talk about it at all, and there're plenty who drives heavy male into position where ever they participate.

Since their gender or masculinity is never questioned, it just never comes up.

I am very rarely asked if I'm a man, and so it must seem I'm fairly masculine. Maybe the same is the case with aggressive women, and we just never know.

I'm trying to find something about it from research sources but there doesn't seem to be much to find so far. Maybe I've just been looking the wrong places, otherwise it would seem that we're on a wild goose chase.

I'll see if I can do some searching today ... but I'm down with pneumonia and that takes a toll on my energy (I sleep most of the time. Incredible how much a guy can sleep just because of pneumonia!).
I may eventually have to get some medicine for it, but I hope I can pull it through without.

Bella said...

Zhawq you cannot sleep all day with pneumonia. Get up and walk around or you will get more sick.

TheNotablePath said...

I think we've been looking in the wrong places, Zhawq.

Zhawq said...

Bella:

"Zhawq you cannot sleep all day with pneumonia. Get up and walk around or you will get more sick."

I appreciate your concern, Bella. Thanks. :)
However, I may have expressed myself poorly there. I do get up and walk about. I'd be crazy if I didn't. But I get tired very quickly and have to go back and sit with my blanket and pillows where I fall asleep.

I've never been much for medication, for some reason I've always just worn the illness out by taking the time I need to relax and sleep. And mostly there's a stronger need for that when you're ill than when you're fresh.

Seems my fever is topping today - or so I hope. If I'm right, I may be on to getting better already from tomorrow (hope, hope). :)


Notable:

"I think we've been looking in the wrong places, Zhawq."

Yeah? Where should we look next? Might as well take a few approaches and see if any of them hit home. Any ideas?

TheNotablePath said...

Not sure. I've snooped around with some basic searches. I found one of ME's old articles on it, and another person's blog that claims psychopathy and say he's an "arommantic" which is something similar to asexual.

What I also find odd is that the only two people I can recall claiming to be raging sexual hetero monsters are UKan and Misanthrope, and, I think some of that is bluster, frankly.

I think it is somewhat how you describe it, a lack of talking about it.

Besides, that's probably what outsiders consider one of the least interesting aspects (our sexuality) unless it is regarding cheating.

MrBlake said...

ResCogitans
"they admit they manipulate everyone they get in touch with, and then this woman who got into trouble at school and lived on the street from age 13 is suddenly au fait using the subjunctive."

I've had around 2 years of regular schoolin, and I'm highly dyslexic (even more so than Zhawq is and he's pretty bad already).

I think grammar is kinda the thing you pick up as you go. And there's also intellect playin a role here.

Like fx. Zhawq's IQ is 148 and mine is well above that. Yet he writes better than me (not particularly well, still better).

I donno, maybe you're right and she's a phoney.


NotablePath
"and a few bitches who've met a young casket."

Haha. Maybe this is her deathbed confession.

"It just seems suspect to me that most of us don't feel very attached to one end or the other on the gender spectrum."

Yeah but how many have you really asked? Most of the guys don't seem too open for questioning about this kinda thang. They know it'll tamper with their reputation.

"I don't consider myself feminine or masculine."

Baby, you're fine just the way you are! ;)

"I've never fancied myself a manly man"

You don't fancy manly men? Damn! Okay I can change!
I like the bit about fighting. Talking things over at the dinner table - or the kitchen floor. Lol.


HavenNyx
"I don't know if gender orientation has anything at all to do with psychopathy. Millions of people in this country struggle with sexual/gender identity and they are obvs not psychopaths."

Yeh, I'm not so sure which is is here.
I've been in jail a lot and am part of a psychopath research program. In some jails they group those they consider dangeous psychopaths (and just my luck, they had to go and think I'm dangerous! Lol) and place us apart from the general inmate population.

That's given me some opportunity to watch other psychopaths and how they are with gender. Here's what I've seen and how I see it -

Almost everybody are very masculine and dominant like, though there're the occasional doggy too. But that's understandable, after all you're in jail and if you aint up to showing your tough side, you're in for being weakened until there aint much left of ya.

But then when you get to know people individually I've found that there're a lot of psychopathic guys who's been playing on gender stuff in almost every possible way.

There are an overweight of very masculine like brute macho kinda guys in prison populations too, but they're mostly Sociopaths and Antisocials.

(Most jails go with the Robert Hare definition of psychopathy, and for good reasons. There're big differences between the groups, just not behavior wise when you see it on the surface. - That's why I spoke about psychopaths not being the same with gender as the sociopaths and antisocials.

I don't know what the conclusion should be, HavenNyx. I aint much thinking about the issue to be honest, but now it's brought up it might be interestin to find out. Heh.


Anon 10:39
"Zhawq is buffalo Bill."

Get out o' those pantyhose and show us your ass, pussycat!


Zhawq
"(but maybe I'm reading a little bit of my own individual mentality into the picture here)."

Should I reply to that in two identical posts or just an individual one? ;)

Zhawq said...

Oh, an extra bit about being ill: Drinking a lot of water - more than you think you need - since appetite and thirst are usually lowered to some degree, though for some reason I don't experience this particular side effect much; I gotta be really sick, like I am now, before it sets in at all - is one of the basic techniques in helping yourself getting well sooner.


(Yeah, Zhawq, that's no doubt REALLY interesting to everybody, lol. Maybe it's my fever talking, but I'll post it even so.)

MrBlake said...

ResCogitans
"they admit they manipulate everyone they get in touch with, and then this woman who got into trouble at school and lived on the street from age 13 is suddenly au fait using the subjunctive."

I've had around 2 years of regular schoolin, and I'm highly dyslexic (even more so than Zhawq is and he's pretty bad already).

I think grammar is kinda the thing you pick up as you go. And there's also intellect playin a role here.

Like fx. Zhawq's IQ is 148 and mine is well above that. Yet he writes better than me (not particularly well, still better).

I donno, maybe you're right and she's a phoney.


NotablePath
"and a few bitches who've met a young casket."

Haha. Maybe this is her deathbed confession.

"It just seems suspect to me that most of us don't feel very attached to one end or the other on the gender spectrum."

Yeah but how many have you really asked? Most of the guys don't seem too open for questioning about this kinda thang. They know it'll tamper with their reputation.

"I don't consider myself feminine or masculine."

Baby, you're fine just the way you are! ;)

"I've never fancied myself a manly man"

You don't fancy manly men? Damn! Okay I can change!
I like the bit about fighting. Talking things over at the dinner table - or the kitchen floor. Lol.


HavenNyx
"I don't know if gender orientation has anything at all to do with psychopathy. Millions of people in this country struggle with sexual/gender identity and they are obvs not psychopaths."

Yeh, I'm not so sure which is is here.
I've been in jail a lot and am part of a psychopath research program. In some jails they group those they consider dangeous psychopaths (and just my luck, they had to go and think I'm dangerous! Lol) and place us apart from the general inmate population.

That's given me some opportunity to watch other psychopaths and how they are with gender. Here's what I've seen and how I see it -

Almost everybody are very masculine and dominant like, though there're the occasional doggy too. But that's understandable, after all you're in jail and if you aint up to showing your tough side, you're in for being weakened until there aint much left of ya.

But then when you get to know people individually I've found that there're a lot of psychopathic guys who's been playing on gender stuff in almost every possible way.

There are an overweight of very masculine like brute macho kinda guys in prison populations too, but they're mostly Sociopaths and Antisocials.

(Most jails go with the Robert Hare definition of psychopathy, and for good reasons. There're big differences between the groups, just not behavior wise when you see it on the surface. - That's why I spoke about psychopaths not being the same with gender as the sociopaths and antisocials.

I don't know what the conclusion should be, HavenNyx. I aint much thinking about the issue to be honest, but now it's brought up it might be interestin to find out. Heh.


Anon 10:39
"Zhawq is buffalo Bill."

Get out o' those pantyhose and show us your ass, pussycat!


Zhawq
"(but maybe I'm reading a little bit of my own individual mentality into the picture here)."

Should I reply to that in two identical posts or just an individual one? ;)

Zhawq said...

.....

Notable:

"It all seems like foolishness, these guys who beat their chests, and harrumph, or take pride in the worm between their legs."

Indeed. Foolish for as far as it's about being superior to the opposite sex.

"On top of that I'm fairly asexual. More times than not, sex or masturbation seems more like a bodily need such as eating or breathing, than something I'm psychologically driven to do."

I take it you're not among those who are virtually incapable of having a regular orgasm., then.

And you know, what you describe is pretty much how I feel too.
I think that's part of the reason most women find me so attractive and likable when I choose them to be: For I never pressure them into doing anything, and even in periods where I'm a bit more to the sexual side (which depends a lot of the position of my partner) I still manage to make them the more needy ones.

I always get what I need. I can masturbate if that takes my fancy, and it doesn't necessarily have to be when I don't have a woman available.


HavenNyx:

"I don't know if gender orientation has anything at all to do with psychopathy. Millions of people in this country struggle with sexual/gender identity and they are obvs not psychopaths"

I'm not sure it pertains to Psychopath/Sociopathy either, I just noticed it's more dominant in this community.

However, I don't think that sociopaths/psychopaths struggle with their sexual identity at all. On the contrary they seem to find it easy to play on both the feminine and the masculine sides in themselves.

And this may be the difference between the mainstream empath and the Sociopathic/psychopathic personality.


"People look to find a label to put on things because it's easier to grasp instead of simply being who they are."


"Seems like (if this story is true at all) that if there is a question of orientation it is coincidental with the psychopathy and not a product of it."

Are you saying that you believe the correlations are merely accidental?

Personally I haven't decided for or against yet. But it does seem to me that psychopaths would be less affected by the Inborn traits that mark the female psychology and physiology.


"Personally, I am gender fluid and identify neutral if asked."

That's a smart approach in society as it is and probably will continue to be for a long time to come.

Zhawq said...

Res,

I see what you mean.
I can only say that I've been corresponding with this girl for a period. I don't publish stuff off the bat, and honestly, my impression to start with was not unlike yours. But I changed my mind once I began talking to her via Instant Messenger.

In my eyes she's genuine. I even had her back a few things, that I initially found questionable, with photo copies.

Obviously I can't speak for everything she says, but I arrived at the conclusion it was believable enough (when viewed from a perspective that has the extra background of her that I've achieved) for me to decide to go ahead and publish it.


Notable,

"When you think you have everyone wrapped around your finger, you fail to notice the noose around your neck."

That part at least I can confirm from first hand experience, lol.


"I just am. Me."

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel too. As a teen I actually played - but it WAS play - with letting older men thinking I was a girl. I had a very androgynous look and was considered a 'pretty boy'.
If I hadn't had that wild side coupled with my flat affect I am absolutely certain I'd be someone's bitch when I've been in jail.

What you describe above the quoted line is almost word to next what I've seen on two occasions a female respectively sociopath and psychopath say, and I've come upon a description by a male (self proclaimed) sociopath saying the same thing with only a few minor differences.

One more thing I've noticed, is that female sociopaths/psychopaths will not feel ashamed by lying about their gender, calling themselves male - not because they're ashamed of being female in the least, but because it's simply easier and makes it more likely that others will respect what they may have to say.

I've known one such woman personally who posed as a guy on the Internet for 2 years without anybody but myself (and lately MrBlake) knowing the truth.

What that kind of thing shows more than anything is how gender is seen by the mainstream population. As for the sociopath community there may be variations in that regard, though I see tendencies towards it being less of an issue - yet females often have to prove themselves more. - In the psychopath community, which by the very definition is very small and specific knowledge thereof therefore also very limited, it seems there's no difference in how people teat each other (but maybe I'm reading a little bit of my own individual mentality into the picture here).

.....