Saturday, January 8, 2011

Psychopaths and Sadism.


Are Psychopathy and Sadism linked?

I never thought of myself as being a sadist until recently when I read some statements made by self proclaimed sociopaths describing various activities of theirs, mainly of manipulative - but also some of physically violent - nature, which they thought of as being sadistic because the outcome is meant to be and often is harmful. I could relate to some of these descriptions and had to admit that I've sometimes found myself joyfully 'getting back' at certain individuals whom I thought 'had it coming' for one reason or another.

But having thought through it some more I realize that what I do is not really sadism. A sadist will go out of their way to inflict pain, simply because that is what gives them pleasure.

To me inflicting pain in itself - though I can do that, and when I do, I find it pleasurable too - this is not what it's about. To be frank, I couldn't care less if people are happy or unhappy, what matters and what decides my line of action is what serves the purpose of what I'm working on to achieve at the moment. And it just seems to me that people who are happy are generally also much more likely to comply and act according to my wishes. Of course, initially it may be necessary to instigate a certain amount of pain in order to create the basic anxiety related to the idea of not meeting my wishes, to not do what I want the person to do. But once the knowledge among those around me is applied and ingrained so that they are aware that pain MIGHT become reality IF they do not comply, then there is usually no longer any good reason to inflict it. On the contrary, I find that then it is a much more productive idea to make people happy, to make them see and feel that 'happy' comes with being Zhawq's friend, with doing what Zhawq wants.

This is what I do, and if you ask me directly I might even wish that the basic anxiety that most regard me with wasn't necessary, which is why I do not consider myself a sadist. A sadist prefers to be feared, whereas I will at times become quite annoyed when people fear me, because too much fear paralyzes and makes the individual incapable of being effective in their activities and sometimes even in their ability to go through a conversation with me.

Another thing that makes fear impractical is the fact that it is sometimes hard to control, meaning that some people become more afraid of you than you need or want them to be. In my point of view it is often more satisfying to make people happy to do your bidding than it is to make them afraid.

Fear is useful as a tool, and that is all there is to it... Or at least almost all there is to it.


Ergo: I conclude that I am not a sadist.

I thought this was good, that it helped my case when I claim to not be a psychopath, because we have all heard about psychopaths and sadism, we all know how the two things are linked together - at least in the common mind. But it turned out that I was dead wrong in this assumption, and I may have dug myself an even bigger hole, because, as it turns out, psychopaths are NOT sadistic in the traditional sense. Instead, the description of Sadism as it relates to psychopaths goes as this:

[quote & citation needed:] Whereas the Sadist inflict pain on others because it feels good, the Psychopath inflicts pain on others only when it's convenient for him.


So I'm back to square one. Everything I do in my attempts to disprove my alleged (well, diagnosed) psychopathy seem to be in vain.


It is heartbreaking to find that whatever you do to cleanse yourself of wrongful stigmatizing labels, you're doomed to fail unless you encompass the most common, most ordinary personality traits. My point is, that most every person COULD be deemed a psychopath under the right circumstances and if the assessor focuses on the traits that are listed as markers for psychopathy.

Am I too self-obsessed when I work so hard to dispute that I am a psychopath? I don't think so, because I am doing it while having in mind that what has happened to me can happen to others, probably is happening to others, and not least: I fear the implications the practice of clinically categorizing people in this manner has on the individual person, that it will have on our world and the richness of human diversity.

To the normal only the highest degree of normalcy, the most normal of normal, is normal enough and thus acceptable. This is my true worry, and this is what gives me a sense of obligation, of righteousness in putting forth these thoughts and views to the public.

.....

I will follow up with more information about the aspects of Sadism and how they relate to Psychopathy in future articles. - Articles with autobiographical content on Psychopathic Writings are a work in progress, and ongoing journey of self-discovery, and thereby - hopefully - also discovery and better understanding of people around me.
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29 comments:

TheNotablePath said...

Have you never spotted someone you deemed prey and effed with them? Did the weakness not leave a trail a blood that was too hard to resist, ever?

I have problems with this. Everything in my impulses scream, go in for the kill. Were it not for some level of Impression Management, what would there be to stop me?

I agree that usually my "sadistic" actions are ones of opportunity as opposed to going out of my way to find them, but does that make it anymore psychopathic or lack thereof?

The very definition of Sadism as if follows:

Sadism is the derivation of pleasure as a result of inflicting pain or watching pain inflicted on others

Does that not describe you, at all? It's not a rhetorical question.

You can argue the intent until the cows come home, but that is sadism in its most concise definition.

Instead of arguing your label, which you seem so vehement about, why do you accept a supposed "expert" source when you full well know the root of most data on psychopaths?

You're a sadist, plain and simple, from what you've shown. You may not be a practicing one, or a habitual one, but it does bring you pleasure when you do it. Does that make you a psychopath? No, that makes you a sadist, which as you have stated, is one of the common traits, but not universal traits, of psychopathy.

Zhawq said...

Notable,
"Have you never spotted someone you deemed prey and effed with them? Did the weakness not leave a trail a blood that was too hard to resist, ever?"

Of course I have. I'm not super human, nor am I not human, so of course I can get tempted too and have. But it's usually in between activities, when I'm in a waiting position having nothing to do, and then some individual wanders into my sphere of vision.

In such situations I don't attempt to hold back, that's not how I am. But I've noticed that my urge to act in such situations is less based in sadism than it's because I wonder if perhaps this individual will react differently than the others I've known off in the past. For the same reason the urge also tends to kick in more often when the individual sends off subtle signals that tell me they're slightly different than the others.

"You're a sadist, plain and simple, from what you've shown."

Really? This is also what I am told by people who consider themselves my 'victims'.

But I thought I've been behaving in a decent manner online, so if I've shown otherwise it was not my intention.

... Not that I don't sometimes target somebody online too, of course I do, we all do ... even the so called victims do it, they target the psychopaths, the sociopaths, and the ASPD'ers ... but I generally only victimize those who deserve it (for one reason or another).

F.ex., I like to mess with those who like to bully others for no apparent reason other than that it makes themselves feel bigger, I like to take show and confront them with their delusions and rub it in their faces, ...give them a little taste of their own medicine so to speak.

Zhawq said...

Edit:

"For the same reason the urge also tends to kick in more often when the individual sends off subtle signals that tell me they're slightly different than the others."

I meant to say: ...when the individual signals that they're different than others I've 'messed' with.

and...

"I like to mess with those who like to bully others for no apparent reason other than that it makes themselves feel bigger, I like to take show and confront them with their delusions and rub it in their faces..."

I meant to say: I like to mess with bully types, I'll confront them with their own weaknesses and delusions, rub it in their faces, so to speak.

It can be quite rewarding to see how they shrink before everybody and become the little pathetic beings they really are, but especially how they shrink in their own eyes.
Sometimes you can virtually see how their self esteem seeps out of them, like it would out of a balloon you've punctured.

So if that's what you mean by me being a sadist, then yes, I guess I am. But then we're all sadists, aren't we?

Or maybe it's just that I didn't understand what you meant after all?

TheNotablePath said...

Strictly going by the textbook dictionary definition, Zhawq.

I can relate to most of what you said, too.

tik said...

I think your the Anon that I back up and you've backed me when a certain poster gets grating Zhawq.
As a truly empathic person I tend to take up an offence for other's and I can't tell you how much pleasure it brings me when I'm not the only one doing it. Like a pack of wolves taking tearing bites out of them.
So am I a sadist?
Maybe it just feels right at times.

I do have a question and I don't like asking on SW when I want the answer from S/P because same people answer that are not S/P and really piss me off.

Question; do do enjoy physical affection? Giving or just taking make any difference?
Would you ask someone if they love you and tell them they have to say it everyday for an alterior purpose?

TheNotablePath said...

I like physical affection, but I don't like feeling like a piece of meet. Feeling used pisses me off.

I don't think I've ever asked anyone to tell them they love me. They usually do it themselves. If they don't, it's pretty easy to tell if they do or not.

I enjoy being physically affectionate in small doses if I feel connected with the person, which is very, very rare.

Zhawq said...

Hi tik,

I'm sorry I haven't replied earlier. It wasn't that I didn't want to, but I've had problems with getting comments to show on my dashboard so I didn't know you'd written this.

Okay, I've thought it all through some more, and after reading my reply to Notable again I can see I was ducking the issue.

Sure I do these things even when I do know how people will react. Sometimes BECAUSE I know how they will react and I want to see it.

But ... well, maybe we all have a little bit of sadism in us, I'm not sure.

I have certainly seen some blatant and undisguised sadism in neurotypicals (normal people), a deep emotional satisfaction at seeing someone suffer - often someone they've been dreaming about seeing in this position for a long time.

And that's what I cannot really identify with. I don't spend time secretly or privately dreaming about some specific individual being tortured to death. - I'm not saying it has never happened, for of course it has. There is always once in a while somebody you become curious about, wondering how they would look, react, what they would say or do or sound, if being tortured, and then in which way, what kind of torture would they react to, etc..

But I'm not overly preoccupied with these things. - Except perhaps for once in a while in relation to sex, but then it's gone as soon as I am satisfied (sexually, I mean).

Maybe I too am a little bit delusional, seeing myself in a brighter light than what I realistically am like. I guess there're limits to how objectively one can see oneself, yes?

Zhawq said...

Hello tik,

Yes, I could be someone who backs you up at SW. But if the person you're referring to is anonymous, then I'm afraid it's not me. You sure I didn't leave my name?

Now about your description: "how much pleasure it brings me when I'm not the only one doing it. Like a pack of wolves taking tearing bites out of them."

I believe I can relate to what you're talking about. I can enjoy watching such a scene, but I rarely participate. When I "do" things I usually make sure I'm the only one who "does" it, otherwise I make sure others "do" it on my "instructions". But that's probably just me being a little eccentric. :)

"I don't like asking on SW when I want the answer from S/P because same people answer that are not S/P and really piss me off."

Yes, so I've noticed. There's a strange fascination with psychopaths and sociopaths going on in society over the last decades which has turned into an even weirder 'fashion', where non-psychopaths fall over each others' feet in eagerness to win the global reward for coming off as most psychopathic or sociopathic (or whichever label that happens to turn them on).

You should see the commotion on a few other fora I've been frequenting over the past 6 months or so. Oh my! lol

I can understand why it pisses you off. It must be really annoying coming to a website in order to learn about some people, just to find that those who claim to be describing the group you're there to get and exchange with are anything BUT that.

Sometimes it takes a good deep digging through loads of shit before you find what you're looking for, and it's not always easy to see the difference between the real thing and fakes.

"do do enjoy physical affection? Giving or just taking make any difference?"

I often enjoy receiving physical affection, but it has to be just right. I mean, most physical touching means nothing to me. People can touch me or not, it makes no difference. But there are times, once in a while ... how can I say this ... times where I really, really like to be touched, IF the person can do it right.

Giving physical affection? Hmm, I don't know. Sometimes, mostly if it's someone I've just met and don't quite know the workings of yet. Of course, then you'll want to find out what they like and how, and physical affection is part of most people's likes and dislikes.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "do I like to give physical affection?". Do you mean Does it turn me on? Well, sometimes, but it all depends on the situation. I'm not very set in marble in that respect.

That was probably not a very good answer, tik.
But if I've misunderstood you or there're some aspects I didn't think about and didn't address, just ask me and I'll do my best.

Finally: Would I ask people to tell me they love me?

I have never done this so far. It's a funny idea, but it would have to be for a very specific reason and it wouldn't give a good result with most people.

Apart from that I agree with Notable.

MrBlake said...

Notable

if I may intrude here
"I have problems with this. Everything in my impulses scream, go in for the kill. Were it not for some level of Impression Management, what would there be to stop me?"

The thought I get is Why would you want to be stopped?

(It's an honest question.)


I don't deny it's been one of my favorite passtime to do this kind of thing. Especially when I was younger there was nothing quite as good as when you had an opportunity to be physical all the way, "down to the bone". Lol

I'll leave it up to Zhawq to share whether he's been physical, but if he denies ever letting himself go solely because it gives you such pleasure - then he's lying. And I'll not have any qualms pointing it out!

(not that I think he will be lying tho, he seems quite set on being honest on this blog.)

Zhawq said...

Note,

I've thought about your statement:
"I don't like feeling like a piece of meat"

It isn't about sadism, of course, it's about self esteem and feeling macho (or something).

Maybe it's "funny", but to me that doesn't really make me feel one way or the other. I don't mind being treated like a piece of meat if those who 'treat' me do it well.

I had an experience recently where two women did just that. It was both pleasant and fun, hearing them talk about me, remark on my physical assets and touching and caressing me.

When they noticed my scars and said that's a shame because it suggests I'm not always submissive, it made me chuckle. They were paying attention to my reactions, because they knew I might stop the session at any time if I thought it wasn't funny anymore.

I've heard from many women that they hate being treated like meat, but I think it also has to do with how you carry yourself. Some women never have the problem whereas others often have to deal with dumb brutes who think that behavior makes them more manly.

Let them know from the beginning that you're in charge. As a woman you have that advantage, because the men will always need you more than you need them - at least where sex is concerned.

Andreas said...

Sadism
I am very much on your side, Zhawq, when it comes to psychopathy and sadism.
Sadism is an inaccurate description of what we do. For me, it is, pretty much, completely instrumental. "Pleasure" is the key word there. While an NT and a P/S may both be pleased with hurting someone, the differences is what, in particular, each finds pleasurable.
An NT would find the result, and experience pleasurable (you got what you deserved & it feels so good to cause you this pain {I imagine}). Whereas the P/S enjoys the result (you got what you deserved).

I would argue that sadism truly is an emotional thing.

Sex can be an excellent analog (probably why the conversation swept in that direction). I (or anyone, for that matter) can behave sexually, for a specific purpose (i.e. influence), without it feeling anything (sexual). It is just a cause and effect performance.
Sex can also be instrumental, or a direct expression of emotions (or a combination).

I digress:
If you look at the (decent) literature, they tend to say 'sadistic psychopath' rather than stating that psychopaths are simply sadistic. So I agree that you are not a sadist. What you do is seemingly sadistic. Never forget that NT's, being the majority, often assume that all others think and feel the same way they do; thusly anyone's motivations would also mirror their own NT motivations.

"You would only hurt someone, if you really hated that person. How could s/he be filled with so much hate? I just don't understand it!" Murder and sadism are the result of strong emotions, from an NT. So, when they see a P/S, murder someone, they tend to ask "How could XYZ be filled with so much rage?". Then, after interviewing XYZ, they see the motivation for murder was casual. "The victim was an obstacle." THEN the NTs are baffled. "How could you kill in cold blood?" Not so much "how could you kill?" but "How could you kill in cold blood?".

I think they are stuck in their own way of thinking, and your "self-obsessed" analysis is quite correct; separating NT from P/S. Conception from reality. (enjoying the deserved ego boost? haha)

That "going out of your way" is la pi├Ęce de r├ęsistance. If it were emotional, it would make sense to go out of your way, since you have some motivation to do so. If it is mainly cause and effect, you will "stay within your way" (haha not as clever sounding as I had hoped) and just get the job done. Not necessarily the minimum, no, but not too much excess. (unless you were aiming for excess, which is still about the result, rather than the experience.)
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You pick on bullies too! I could have written most of the responses you have here myself! haha :)

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side not: I also generally don't mind being used, as long as I agree with the outcome :)

Anonymous said...

There are no such things as "real things" in search of a forum support group, and certainly none in SW. They all have SOME kinds of problems, but psychopaths/sociopaths they are not. Well, except perhaps just a few lurking and trolling on occasion just for laughs, and most likely posing as "empaths". But most people there are angsty teenage chicks with BPD.

Ettina said...

This is interesting. I agree with you that most NTs do show a certain level of sadism. I'm much less sadistic than most people. There's a category of comedy that depends on putting the protagonist through ridiculous misfortunes, and I rarely enjoy it. Only if the protagonist seems to genuinely deserve what happens to them, and there are others I can empathize with who usually do fine. (For example I can't stand Mr Bean because I like Mr Bean and watching him suffer makes me feel depressed, but I enjoy Fawlty Towers because Basil Fawlty is the author of his own misfortune and others such as Manuel do fine.)

I think the difference between normal sadism and clinical sadism is a matter of degree, not type. Which makes it tricky to draw the line.

Regarding sadism and psychopathy, I think they're independent traits that can coexist. Sadistic psychopaths, however, are more likely to act on their desires because guilt isn't holding them back. And sadism plus psychopathy can cause some very serious crimes - probably most serial killers are sadistic psychopaths.

Oh, another comment. There's two types of sadism - sexual sadism and non-sexual sadism. The difference is what *kind* of pleasure you get from others suffering. Sexual sadism is more abnormal, I think.

Anonymous said...

You are a sadist just a controlled one, a sadist gets pleasure out of hurting a physcopath doesn't. Lenin was a physcopath, Hitler was not a physcopath though most would love to think he isactually just very physcotic (he was kind to animals), which is the best virtue you can have. Stalin was a sadist like you,

Caprice said...

Some thoughts I had after reading...

The experience of being around someone overtaken by extreme emotions is thrilling. Ecstasy and misery can both be exciting. I think that psychopaths may find pleasure in the anguish of others, but this is not sadism—it is not the satisfaction of some intrapsychic drive to establish oneself as alpha. My take is that it is more likely that a psychopath would inflict pain on another in order to feel emotional stimulation.

It is of course possible that a psychopath can also be a sadist.
They may more often be than the "neurotypical." Lacking in empathy, it would seem logical that many psychopaths would tend to gravitate toward power-based relationships rather than emotional ones. Sadism is not many unhealthy thought processes removed from unempathetic power-based socializing. But being a psychopath does not entail being a sadist...

Alfredo said...

I don't mean to butt in, but I definately believe that sadism and Psychopathy are unrelated. There are sadists(at least sexual sadists, I'm not too familiar with any other kind)that can go about doing absolutely terrible things to people and feel no negative emotion toward it, and then have that same person be truely empathetic and loving in a different setting, obviously making them not psychopathic.

Anonymous said...

I have tell you, Ettina, what you experience is not sadism in my opinion; It is simply a relief, a rejoice from the witnessed "Justice" to the "vile men" getting their "just deserts". What you described seems to be THE relief felt from the "affirmation" of "justice".

For the sadists, justice and dignity are jokes, the unfulfilled pledge; Jokes that are made up by our feeble minds to give a measure, a definition, an "order" to the chaos that is existence.

For sadists, depending on degree, there is little to no differentiation put towards the recipients of pain; Even when there is differentiation, it is not from the basis of "just deserts", but more tangible reasons such as the rule of "power"(~Am I powerful enough to get away with it?).

When I see a person in pain, physical or emotional, I feel pleased not because of "justice". The motivation is ,for a lack of a better word, "truth" not "justice"; Masochism is a different manifestation with the same motivation, ~truth~.

There is no magnanimous catalogue of our sins and virtues. Sadist rejoice from all suffering regardless of the recipient because this reflects the chaotic nature of existence.

I have to ask myself sometimes if my belief in chaos is false; are my arguements of Free Will(Lucifer) just as pathetic as the arguement of Natural Order(God)? Two sides of that same bloody coin?

You have to ask yourself the "unutterable questions". Ask "Why?" "What if?" without holding back; you can say whatever you want to yourself, lie if you want.

-bSodmin

Anonymous said...

I want to suck you off. Why on Earth am I not a psychopath? Or am I? More like a narcissist loser, by your description.

Anonymous said...

Also, I feel hysterical desire to submit to you. What would that be, lol? Oh, and I'm male.

lele said...

Zahwq, you didn't talk like a psychopath here. This:

"My point is, that most every person COULD be deemed a psychopath under the right circumstances and if the assessor focuses on the traits that are listed as markers for psychopathy."

is gold.

Also, I think a psychopath wouldn't be bothered about what box other people - those dumb tools! - try to put him into, unless of course it served him well being seen under a certain light instead of another. He would be laughing at them.

After reading this and other websites related to psychopathy, I've started thinking about myself as an high-functioning empath, since I have empathy yet I can relate - can we say "empathize"? - with people who lack it, and I think that makes me possible to relate with your words and feelings, provided that you describe them accurately.

I've started thinking about psychopaths as just people with stunted emotional development. As a kid, I used to abuse and torture little animals for fun, then grew up into a young man who was a slave to his emotions and empathy, and now I feel I have mastered my emotions and empathy and can make them work for me instead of against me and, last but not least, I can see through all the emotional manipulation and social pressure neurotypicals put you through. So, now I look at psychopaths and think "Oh my! Are they still there? When will they grow up?"

I don't see psychopaths as dangerous people anymore. I have realized that it's neither psychopathy nor other "personality disorders" who make you dangerous. I've even started questioning the very definition of a psychopath and I think that psychologists have it wrong. Today, I was writing to an acquaintance of mine and mentioned a villain character from a movie, and at first I defined it as a psychopath, because he was a psychopath for sure, but I immediately realized that I was wronging psychopaths by saying that, because being a psychopath does not make you evil, so I immediately corrected such definition to "dangerous psychopath". It was a less than ideal definition, though, because "dangerous" is a generic term which does not convey what dangers are to be feared. This article of yours has made me realize that the proper term would have been "sadistic psychopath". Now, I realize that by stressing that he was a psychopath, I seem to be nitpicking his psychopathy, but that's just because we are used to mention people's qualities only when such qualities belong to a minority. "Sadistic neurotypical" would have been shortened to "sadist".

Anonymous said...

I don't know whether this thread is intended to receive comment only from afflicted individuals; if so, I apologize. I stumbled upon it after having been victimized by self-confessed sadists who I believe may also be psychopathic. I do suspect there is significant group-think happening here, and comment from non-psychopathic types could enrich the dialogue. I'm seeing a lot of the following things: 1) what appears to be rationalization, and mentally ill people reinforcing thought patterns of others with similar mental illness (thereby wrongfully "normalizing" their own illness, whether they realize it or not) 2) ignoring the obviously objectively atypical and harmful nature of the described thoughts and behaviors, and 3) "of course I do"-type-statements in regards to thoughts and behaviors I've never experienced and don't believe to be normal of non-psychopathic types. Just my two cents.
Metta to all of you.
May you someday experience the beautiful, amazing, full range of human emotion. I wish you the deep and lasting serendipitous joy and blissful ever-expanding positive feedback loop that comes from deriving happiness from others' happiness, borne of empathy and simple genuine interest in others' well-being.

V. said...

Anonymous,
no need to apologize!

The website is for everybody, not just for psychopaths or sociopaths etc., and web-owner is pleased to hear from everybody who wants to participate.

It's always good with debate and new input, I know this is part of the idea with the project.

I think you've asked some interesting questions. But I'm not a psychopath myself, just a friend of Zhawq, so I am not the right to answer them, though. But I know he reads everything people write and that he tries to answer as much as possible.

It would be interesting to see Zhawq's response to what you say about 'experiencing the lasting joy and ever-expanding positive feedback that comes from deriving happiness from others' happiness'.

V.

Anonymous said...

Well, I want to write this because I need to tell it to somebody. I probably am not a psycopath. Maybe I have some degree of sociopathy, but I'll never be sure about that.

I feel sexual pleasure for watching people suffer since I was very young. I think I masturbate thinking about different kinds of torture since I was 8 or 9. Of course, when I was that age I didn't even know what was masturbation. I just felt that place "itchy" and put my hand down there.

For many years, I could only relate sexual pleasure to torture and pain, and never to sex itself. In my juvenile mind, what I did there was nothing to do with sex. Then I started to search the internet and found out I was a sadist. Very well.

I think I can choose people. I choose those who I feel empathic to and those who I don't. There's a good amount of people who I truly love, and I don't like to think that anything bad can happen to them. Other people, on the other hand, I don't really care. Weather they feel good or not, it's all the same to me. If humiliation or suffering is being inflicted to them, I just feel like sarcastically laughing. I feel good and I feel excited.

I think I could kidnap someone and torture this person to death. I don't do that because I'm afraid to be caught, and I don't want to waste my entire life because of some hours of fun. I'm sure that I'm perfectly able to kill somebody, and I'm almost positive that I wouldn't feel regretful.

I really don'tknow what happens to me. Recently, I started to date a guy (I'm a girl, ok?). I tend to dissociate my sadism from my relationship with him. I could never inflict pain to him. I don't feel like subjugating him. On contrary, if I think he is feeling pain, I feel sad and probably can't have any kind of sexual delightment.

Well, thanks for reading. I just felt like sharing my "dual" sexual life. It makes me confuse sometimes...

Anonymous said...

In response too anonymous june 24th. Reading your post reminded me of another time and place.
My hunch- When you say you can choose who you feel empathy for - are you sure this is truly what is meant by empathy ? Do you have physical feelings for other people outside maybe your closest family ? I thought I did and it turned out I was just displaying/mimicking what I had learnt was more appropriate socially.
Many of the things I had read about psychopathy made me think it didn't apply, it isn't until you read it from the other side of the fence, and you don't need to guess, you know that is you also. Nearly everything you read on the subject has a negative perspective behind it. That's why this site is so refreshing..

Anonymous said...

AH I think your close zhawq.

When most N/T, (term seems to be catching on), enjoy watching others suffer, in my experience, it is because of a moral position and its seems that their position is about making the other pay. I can laugh along with them, but its just a general enjoyment as opposed to the N.T. people around me who seem to care that they suffer. So in this regard, I agree great white, we are not sadistic in the same sense. Generally, we might get a little kick out of it but our heart isn't in it. What's in it for us !

On the other hand, I really do enjoy causing pain in some people, whether they are an obstacle, in which case "I showed them, teach em to get in my fucking way".
Or, I see them as an out and out enemy for some reason ( these would often seem casual or trivial to most people ) and thus wish them death, and anything on a scale between their displeasure and final second is a favourable outcome.

Then there are people who have pissed me off, truly, in which case I find the thought of injuring them quite satisfying, and I generally take time thinking of all the way I could get them, taking my time to enjoy the thought of and picking my favourite idea. I know I can get very out of control in this vengeful state, So I must always stop and think, because its like I have become as slave to the avenger within, thinking only of my purpose to inflict anger. To me sadism again seems to be secondary, but I love it in this sense.it is satisying like nothing else.

Another situation I find frequently, is when someone doesn't give me enough respect or recognition. I find this odd in a sense, because I really don't give a fuck what they think, but none the less, treating me with less respect than I deserve is like poking a wasp nest, there's only one reaction, just bide your time and see. In this situation I do become very sadistic. There's no two ways about it. I want to cause pain and I will very much enjoy it.

Then there is sexual sadism. And I can just imagine the places this will get saved. Hmmph, I don't know ! In some cases Pain abuse power are common themes but I am not able to really place the lye of the land. Sometimes I could rape and pillage and get off fully. Other times I have no intention to hurt, say a girl I actually like, but none the less her pain causes me great pleasure. Although this is not my intention, and even when it is at odds with my direction. So this must be sexual sadism to my reasoning.

In a nutshell, sadism, IMO, is irrelevant to psychopathy. A person can be both, one or the other, or neither. Psychopath or or atypical. The two have no real correlation.

But, psychopaths and neurotypicals are wired slightly differently, we get our feelings from ourselves in the world, N.T.'s get there's from there place in their society. And thus, our sadistic nature, if we have one, is tied to this perception.

Where a psychopath gets angry and sadistic at a personal infraction, a N.T. equivalent is to get angry and sadistic at a societal infraction. This is also true for sexual sadism. How many times I have heard guys saying things like I would like to fuck her till she cries, its all right- she's just a slut, and other similar garbage. They have sexual desire, think she deserves pain somehow and would like to be the ones to inflict it. We have sexual desire, she deserves it because we want it, and who else could do the job properly.

Sadism has nothing to with psychopathy. Although, to me is just like psychopathy in a nutshell. Its all about perception.

MJR said...

In reality,none of you are "psychopaths" or "sadists",you are SINNERS. It's a SPIRITUAL problem. Everybody sins, but yours are more agregious. Sigmund Freud who started psychology was an Atheist who attempted to put a label of mental illness on folks who behave like yourself and take morality out of the picture. Read this>> http://www.dovechristiancounseling.com/Mental-Illness-Page-Two.html

PsyOpthy said...

no post till July 2012, did MJR shittalking saved Yours sword? hehe:)


I new, so something about me.
(sorry for propobly bad english)
almost since I remember i knew,
there is smoethings wrog with me, i always be "over" people, filling smart more than most of people I knew.

1st I thought it was schizofrenic, so i started reading and interesting of psychology.

I develop that psychopathy its more than quite diffrent than showing in movies.
i made a test - positive reasults make me sure and little confused. not much coz I expected positive.

I'm not even sure - pos/neg I was thinking gonna be better for me. and I still dont.
you know, sometime its look be easier live in "Matrix", but its so nice know more than ppl sourand...
If I have opinion about "theme", no body can change me thinking, even If i have to say "Yeah ok i
understood" or similar.
In place i live its not easy be diffrent, but only few ppl know me as a " " (i dont really know
what they think)
ok, there is much more my observation about disease and i leve it for later.
today im gonna focus on this articles cos have no time i real life las time.

I was looking for same psycho pictures which i will put tomorrow to the wall that my Girfriend can see it.
i know she love me in some freaky way but i often talk to her how sad she make me, giving untouchable
proof that i have right. She make me angry when i heard her giving really stupid argue, that i cant agree.
(trust me I am objective,that i have much more IQ ).
She is good material for wife, but i always think i deserve for something more what mean i
realy like seduce woman ( often fantasy about diffrend kind of they looking.) i know that
look like i dont love her but she knew only better side (or not fully picture) of me, exacly i show her,
excluding time im get angry, or offer dirty sex
(lucky she like many of that ideas).

When i started reading Yours post i think i reading my own!! I dont know any ppl with our disease,
being like me even if they are realy smart. (i know many ppl significant with
science,research - so its give me compare point for being objective - if i have to i preffer trust
smart ppl collecting info).
1st time also i talking some true about me so its strage for me.

I notice:
next post

PsyOpthy said...

1. Once per time i like dirty sex, having slave, using little violance but womans i met
was healthy i they also like this!! Mean its alone not giving significal dependence
beetween Psy i sexual fantasy.

2. What is true, its passible to hurt someone or even cat (yea i shoud shame )but reason
is diffrent than pressure flowing direct from making pain.( i dont uderstand sadist.
they are just bad haha). The direct reason is almost always not going things like we want.
Fuck yea! We love have right, be the best. so if cat dont do what we want we
starting pushing him,going finally to uncontrolled angry.explaing if its no cat that
"he deserve for this (like sadist hehe) " so the reason is now punnish him.
I never want to hurt ppl who realy deserve for it (ex. f*cking monsters using
only their power not for justice on first plane.) Problem is: "if we dont want
object(ex.cat)do something becouse we expect that he dont make it right and then we
will have reason to give him a lesson". i think its matching to me...

3. theoretical i can want to making pain someone but i need realy strong stimulus
(ex.be witness of sadism). not tested by me.
much better is when ppl respect and talkin good about as. like i said, it so
good to be best.

4. we classify ppl realy fast, with good quality of theirs intencies. i can
recognize and analyze someone character and make hard to change opinion.


5. dont U feel if everybody gona do exacly wath you say they gonna be lucky ppl,
and all gonna be better?
last one for today:
6. the realy problem is morality, i noticed, that for my profit i can move much
far than others and thinking that is good. whats mean if something is doing for get
a target, its not so bad and nesessary...

againg sorry for style of writing and mistakes.
Cya soon. tweeting Yours site:)

Anonymous said...

We all have urges to inflict pain and get back at people. And everyone likes control and power also there powerful victims.

The thing is: How often do you actually try to get back at people ? And do you do serious stuff to people like threaten them, manipulate them, and beat them up ? Or is it more like you tease them a little bit if they don´t comply ?

Try to be more concrete.